A Miserable Pile of Secrets (Transcript)

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Chris Sims: "The devil would love you to belive this non sense and also that he is a hideous beast when in fact that the Bible says he is a Beautiful perfect created being read it...then sinn was fond in him and nhe was cast out of Heaven. There is No way that Jesus was married to anyone. this movie is missleading as other movies made by hollywood. when the so called monk in this film was beating himself he was crucifying himself thus insulating Jesus, beacuse Jesus died for all of us and there is no need for anyone to do this to themselves." One Star. An Amazon.com review of The Da Vinci Code.

[Music: Mona Lisa by Jerry Lee Lewis]

C: Hello friends and neighbors, and welcome to Apocrypals. This is the podcast where normally, two non-believers read through the Bible and try not to be jerks about it. Today, neither of those things is true.

Benito Cereno: Yeah.

C: My name is Chris, and with me as always is the other set of footprints, Benito Cereno. Benito, how are you?

B: I'm good, I'm a little, well, I don't know, has 10, I don't know what, how's it gonna be, like the song says, when we watch The Da Vinci Code?

C: I don't think that song was about the Da Vinci Code originally.

B: Yeah, well, Death of the Author, Chris.

C: You know what, that's fair, that's fair. Because that's what we're doing today, folks. We are doing a commentary track for the film The Da Vinci Code, directed by Ron Howard from the year 2006.

B: Little Ronnie Howard.

C: That's right. It is available on Internetflix, as well as Amazon Prime.

B: And Hulu.

C: Probably other things if you'd like to watch it. Hulu as well.

B: Yeah. They were very generous with their licensing agreement on this one, I guess.

C: Yeah, here, I'm gonna go ahead and say the DaVinci Code made its money.

B: Yeah.

C: They're not holding out for exclusivity, I don't think. I watched this film recently and decided we had to do it. It is not the normal level of apocrypha that we usually find ourselves diving into here on the show.

B: But I know it is gonna intersect with many things that we have covered on the show. So it will be of interest and I think the context, I mean we'll talk about this later, I haven't seen this movie, but I think the context of the things we've covered on this show will help people... "appreciate" is not the right word, but understand some things about this movie, so I think it will be of interest to the theophiloi out there. I sure hope so.

C: This is probably gonna be our least downloaded episode just by virtue of the fact that if you're not watching along, I imagine you won't have as good a time. So that's like this is not one you're gonna want to listen to while you're driving the car. Dishes you can probably get away with. Those are the two situations I think in which most people listen to podcasts. So...

B: Yeah, yeah.

C: But we will be here for the next two and a half hours.

B: That's right. I know Chris you've been looking forward to this episode because by the nature of the fact that it's a live commentary track you just you can't edit it it has to there has to be no editing in it it's gotta be it's gotta be live raw footage

C: Yeah I have to put that Jerry Lee Lewis track at the beginning and make sure it's it's synced up and that's about it.

B: Yeah, yeah.

C: So we're burning daylight here and 2 hours 28 minutes 48 seconds left, so let's go ahead and pass the collection plate.

[Commercials, bracketed by clips from the movie.]

C: What I have done and what I believe you have done, load it up on, on internet flicks, and then just hit that backwards 10 seconds button to make sure you are at 0.00 and Benito, are you ready to go?

B: Tom Hanks, Audrey to two, all right, I'm at zero, zero, zero, all loaded up, ready.

C: All right, let's, let's count it in. It's gonna be three, two, one, go, okay?

B: All right, okay.

C: All right, all right, three, two, one, go. I always forget Audrey Tautou is in this. I love that song, "All the Things She Said." ...her debut single, I think. Now, you have not seen the movie, but you did read the book.

B: Yeah, so I read the book when it was new because my mom had it in hardcover, and one time when I was home--

C: Because she's a mom.

B: Right.

C: So it just appeared in the house one day.

B: That's right, that's right. And I was at home visiting my parents and she gave me the book and she was like, "You should read this. "I think this is the kind of book you could write." And I know she meant that as a compliment, but you know. And so, you know, I was there for like a weekend and I managed to read the whole book. It's a pretty brisk read.

C: Yeah, it is, I have seen it described as a, as a, the perfect airplane book, because it's about the length of a flight.

B: Yeah, I mean, it's broken up into like a lot of chapters and the chapters are all like three pages long, you know? So it's--

C: I like a book that has rough chapters, honestly.

B: Yeah, yeah, sure. It, I mean, it does make it easier to read. I've definitely--

C: Dvinky?

B: Dvinky?

C: So did you not see the movie just 'cause you loved the book so much and you didn't...

B: Yeah, I didn't wanna solely my vision of Harvard symbologist Robert Langdon.

C: Not a professor of semiotics.

B: Yeah, not semiotics. Symbology, a real thing.

C: Right, which we're gonna get his lecture in a second, his lecture to a room full of idiots.

B: Yeah.

C: It's gonna be hard not to cuss.

B: Oh man.

C: So what's this movie rated?

B: Oh, I think it's PG-13. I think I just saw--

C: Yes, Parental Guidance, age 13. There he is, the Vision.

B: Oh wow, yeah, there he is. Also Geoffrey Chaucer in The Knight's Tale.

C: Oh yeah.

B: Thank, oh good. The subtitles are letting me know what their accents are.

C: I love it when a sub, first of all, a thing I love in subtitles is when it says in an accent.

B: Yeah.

C: The second thing I love is when it's like Spanish and it's speaking foreign language.

B: Speaking foreign language, especially when they just say like, "Gracias." And it's just like, "Bruh, you could have worked that one out."

C: Yeah, but maybe you don't even need to translate that one. I don't want people working out with contact with this.

B: Just put it in there.

C: Do you think they saw Paul Bettany in this and they were like, "Oh, we can definitely do the John Byrne vision."

B: Yeah, they were really doing the long game. They were like, "That's Victor Shade right there, baby."

C: Here's this guy's completely very stupid PowerPoint presentation on something that he has to have notes for.

B: Yeah.

C: Yeah, it's called a microphone, there, Robert. What? Why the hair? Is his hair described in the book?

B: I don't think so. I mean, again, it's been like, I don't know, 17 years since I've read it or whatever but I definitely don't think it said Robert Langdon, Harvard symbologist, worst haircut of Tom Hanks's entire career.

C: Right, like Robert Langdon who was trapped under some rubble when Doomsday attacked Metropolis.

B: Yeah. I get it. Yeah. Is this haircut, is this better or worse than the Forrest Gump haircut?

C: Oh, gotcha, gotcha, they're Spanish.

B: Ah, ha ha. Hey, man, if you're a professor of ancient symbols, probably you would be able to understand what "la forche de diable" means.

C: Who are these people coming to this lecture who, I mean, I know that when you see a pitchfork, you obviously just think of Aquaman.

B: Yeah, that's right, that's right.

C: They really should have used Blade of the Immortal for this one.

B: Yeah, ooh, gotcha, got another, got 'em. Oh my god, the peace symbol as the broken upside down cross, That was definitely a thing from my Satanic panic upbringing. Definitely not true.

C: Here's a thing that I, Jeepers Christmas. That's the symbologist Robert Langdon literally explaining the sacred feminine to a crowd of women.

B: Yeah, he's... Langsplaining, as they call it.

C: Did you know there's a third one?

B: Yeah.

C: I don't know, I did, okay. I have watched this and I have watched Angels and Demons. Angels and Demons slaps.

B: Yeah.

C: Angels and Demons is about, if you have not seen it, it is about the Illuminati trying to blow up the Vatican with an antimatter bomb.

B: Yeah, yeah. Again, have not seen the movie, have read the book. Those are the only two Robert Langdon mysteries that I've read. I haven't read, what's the third one called? Is it Inferno?

C: Inferno, yeah, Amazon has just informed me that I could rent or buy Inferno for $12.99. That's the same amount that Spider-Man 2 costs.

B: Wow, $12.99.

C: So I assume it's as good.

B: Yeah, they're similar.

C: Oh, this one is, this one was from 2016. That's weird, I do not remember. You know, a lot happened in that year. It'-- this was eerily prophetic. Tom Hanks has to stop a virus that would wipe out half the world's population, which I'm sure he has to do through symbols.

B: Hold on, vision is speaking Latin here. I didn't pick out enough words there. Suis, quizque, ocalis. Well, suis and ocalis go together. Quizque doesn't match in the middle there. Oh well.

C: I was literally thinking, as we were getting set up, I was like, the real challenge of this is going to be how are we gonna work Roy Thomas into this one? And I had forgotten the Vision's in it.

B: The Vision is in it.

C: So we got that on lock, everybody.

B: The Vision, the prize creation of Roy Thomas and Big John, Buscema, right? That was a Buscema joint.

C: It's weird. I don't wanna get into this discussion, but it's weird that Roy Thomas's The Vision is not a revival of the Golden Age vision. That's all, that's all I'll say about it. We can have that discussion later.

B: Right, I know he did take the name from there.

C: He did take your name from there, but it's weird that, and it's very weird that he's a rival of the Golden Age Human Torch, but.

B: Right, yeah, that was, yeah. But that wasn't even, we're definitely at the, the mortification of the flesh segment of Paul Bettany's character. He is definitely, he's currently raking his flesh with the weird leg chain implement?

C: With his garter.

B: Yeah, now he's gonna whip. So--

C: It's, look, it's whips and garters, that's how you know it's not a sex thing.

B: That's right. So like, one of the major criticisms of this movie from Catholics is its portrayal of the Opus Dei, which is a real organization that does not carry out hits for the Vatican or whatever is going on in this movie.

C: That you know of.

B: That I'm aware of. I mean, they are to a degree a secret organization, but they are largely a service organization. Also, they're not made of monks. It's largely lay people.


B: Yeah. But some of them do practice mortification of the flesh. That part is true. I don't know if they do it the sexy Paul Bettany way that we just saw.

C: They're like, they are like mega conservative though, right?

B: That, yeah, that's probably true. I don't know a ton about Opus Dei, to be honest, and so I don't wanna say anything incorrect here. Is this Leon?

C: Well, congratulations. as much about it as the film does.

B: Yeah. I mean, arguably I know more in that I know that it's not made up of monks.

C: That's a thing that I feel like I was, sorry, I forgot about the part where he points at two triangles and goes, "That's geometry."

B: Yeah. Thanks, man.

C: Wow, brilliant...

B: I'm glad we could--

C: Harvard symbologist.

B: We could bring in your expertise to consult on, are these triangles geometry?

C: Yeah, it's, I still am not, I mean, I guess it's because he is implicated in the crime.

B: Yeah, oh, right, 'cause his, I remember, 'cause the dead person wrote his name in blood or whatever, right?

C: Right.

B: Spoiler for a scene that's coming up, I guess.

C: Yeah, he has, listen, he has a little bit of the claustrophobia, just like Storm.

B: Just like Storm, 'cause he also was buried during his childhood in Africa.

C: Right, by the Shadow King.

B: Yeah.

C: What was I saying before I got distracted by the existence of triangles?

B: I don't remember. We were talking about Opus Dei.

C: Created by Berke Breathed

B: Yeah, that's right. Famous syndicated newspaper... Yeah, Opus Dei is the most famous Catholic cartoon penguin.

C: That's what I was talking about. I feel like there was a lot of controversy about this movie that could have been avoided if people had just been like, "Oh, right, this is dumb. This is not real." Like, it's actually fiction--

B: Yeah, yeah.

C: Like, there should be as, there should be exactly as much controversy about this as with that Swamp Thing issue that Rick Veitch wrote where Jesus was gonna get crucified on Swamp Thing.

B: Yeah, that's right, as did happen. Also, okay, so Alfred Molina is in this, So that explains why it's the same price as Spider-Man 2. No, no, this one wasn't the one that was the same price as my theory.

C: Yeah, but that's a good joke. That was a good joke.

B: My theory is ruined.

C: You know, I'm something of a, something of a scientist myself.

B: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, so I think, yeah, a big source of the trouble and controversy around this movie is Dan Brown's continued insistence the book and the movie are based on real history.

C: Okay, does he like, is he like winking when he says that though? Because it's--

B: No, no, like he got like full on and confronted about this in interviews and he was like, "Yeah, everything. Well, 99%." You know?

C: Well, okay, I have to get some clarity on this, 'cause did he mean by that that gnosticism exists?

B: He, so like the book--

C: What did he mean if you look at, I have made you a PowerPoint about this, about how John the Baptist is actually Mary Magdalene in this picture.

B: Yeah.

C: This photograph of the last supper.

B: He means all of the conclusions. I mean, I don't wanna spoil the movie, I guess, but the book opens with a statement that's like, "The Priory of Sion is a real thing that has really been defending the true bloodline of Jesus for centuries." The book starts with that disclaimer, and already he's on incorrect ground.

The Priory of Sion is real for certain definitions of the word real. But it was founded in 19... It was founded in 1956 as a hoax by a guy who wanted clout in the French occult society.

Hey, it's Amelie.

C: That's right, she's here to whimsically ruin your life. As she does in the film Amelie. The numbers are out of order.

B: Right. Yeah, so it's not the Fibonacci sequence is what you're saying. Right? Fibonacci sequence. Famously a sequence.

C: Yes.

B: And I love that he looked at this and he was like, "It's the Vitruvian Man, a famous sketch by Leonardo." First of all yes it is thank you for saying that but also it's just a man with his arms and legs out like it's not really the Vitruvian man until he's overlaid with a second pair

C: Yeah with the second dude like if there was if he had like four arms like if Alfred Molina was there.

B: Yeah, you see if it were Alfred Molina I would immediately understand that this is the Vitruvian man.

C: This whole, here's a thing that I genuinely love about this movie, 'cause you know my taste in stories.

B: I do.

C: Two things that I love, riddles and death traps.

B: Yes.

C: 100%, it is my jam. My wife looked at me, to quote the film, A Christmas Story, looked at me like I had lobsters crawling out of my ears, because one time I like realized someone's name, like I realized who someone was and she was like, "Oh, how do you know?" I'm like, "Oh, well, whenever I see an unfamiliar word, I just do a quick anagram in my head. Just see if it's, you know, see if it's the Riddler."

B: It will not surprise you to know that I also do that.

C: Apparently that's not a thing, um, normal people.

B: Yeah, very very strange. Yeah, like I'll be watching a thing and I'll be like, oh their name their name is "villain" backwards or whatever. Yeah, it's like don't you just you just don't you don't just check any name that seems unusual just to make sure?

C: If you see a word that doesn't look like it should look like that

B: Yeah.

C: And just real quick run the run the anagram. If you see a block of text that has broken up in a strange way, it's an acrostic, nine times out of ten.

B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, um, like in, uh...

C: A.C., you can't swear on this show! ... Okay. Also, I can't edit this one, 'cause it's a commentary track. It's okay, I love you. My wife.

B: Incredibly good Chris yelling at A.C. content. Yelling to, not yelling at. I don't want to get across...

C: Yeah look I don't know who was surprised but Dell Rusk was the red skull.

B: Yeah yeah um I oh that's what I was so in Paul Grist Jack staff one of the best comics of all time.

C: My favorite comic, the only comic I ever refer to as my favorite comic.

B: Yeah, there's a sci-fi author whose name is Ian M. Angel.

C: Right.

B: And I did not realize at the time that that was a reference to the author Ian M. Banks. And so I saw that name and I was like that's an unusual choice and I realized it was an anagram for Neil Gaiman. Right,

C: Right, 'cause he is a, 'cause he is a, it is a reference to Iain M. Banks, but the character is Neil Gaiman.

B: Yeah, right.

C: Which is very good.

B: Yeah.

C: 'Cause you know what he talks about. Stories.

B: Stories.

C: Yeah. PS.

B: PS, yeah.

C: Time to write the PS. Oh. He's not even looking for other suspects. That's the professional out there.

B: Yeah, he doesn't need other suspects. He's a professional.

C: Neither Gary Oldman nor everyone could stop him.

B: That's right.

C: Much like bulls, once he starts, he doesn't stop until you pop.

B: Bulls also care very little for habeas corpus laws. Famously so, they're famous in their disregard.

C: I mean that, listen, what you just said is true.

B: Yeah, the P.S. does not stand for postscript. No, what kind of symbologist are you?

C: P.S., postscript.

B: P.S., Princess Sophie or P.S., Priory of Sion.

C: Or, please stop.

B: Please stop. Please stop, find Robert Langdon. Have him come in to Langsplain all these symbols.

C: I feel like a lot of people would not have had the feelings they had about this movie if they were more familiar with the work of the Riddler. That's all.

B: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

C: It would have gotten, oh, right, right. We've seen this sort of thing before.

B: So the insistence of Dan Brown that this is based on real historical fact, and not just his, but also the authors of one of his main sources, the book "Holy Blood, Holy Grail," actually, those authors, Baigent, Leigh, and Lincoln, they actually sued Dan Brown for plagiarism, which, this is very funny, actually, because they're like, "He stole all of our conclusions," and then the judge was like, "Yeah, but is your book fiction or non-fiction?" And they were like, "No, it's real history," and he's like, "Yeah, you can't copyright real history, you dingus," and so they basically...

C: Are you sure? Like, I'm gonna ask you again.

B: They, and so they basically lost their case because they insisted that their fantasy about the bloodline of Jesus was true. And so, hoist by their own petard, so that case against Dan Brown got dropped. Even though, yeah, this is definitely ripped off from Holy Blood, Holy Grail. Which is nonsense of its own stripe.

C: Right. It's, first of all, there's a lot of information in this movie that is conveyed through PowerPoint, which I think is, like, boy, when we get to Ian McKellen, if he just busts out his entire Microsoft Office, my man loves his productivity software.

B: I mean, who doesn't? I feel PowerPoint underutilized visual medium within film. Everything could just be PowerPoints.

C: He would almost have to be older than you remember.

B: That is the nature of linear time.

C: Yeah, if he wasn't being a real Merlin situation.

B: Yep, also now he's as old as he's gonna get.

C: I don't like Merlin aging backwards. I think that I'm not a fan.

B: Yeah, you don't like that aspect?

C: I don't know why, but that is part of that story I do not.

B: Well, you know, that's a modern invention. That's a T.H. White thing. That's not from Mallory or anything, so you know.

C: You know me, I'm a purist.

B: The thing about Arthur is there's so many different versions. You just pick what you like and discard the rest, so.

C: Well, I mean, it's weird that you said it because that is also 100% real history.

B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Specifically the T.H. White version.

C: Yeah, I did used to work with a guy who got very excited about the Clive Owen King Arthur movie.

B: Oh yeah, 'cause now it's, here it is, here it is, the real history.

C: Yeah, 'cause like, I mean, he's a Roman, which you know, that King Arthur really was.

B: Right.

C: I was like, I don't have time for this right now.

B: It's set in Sub-Roman Britain, and Keira Knightley is a druid Guinevere.

C: Right. We could be watching that, but that would be an even more tenuous link to the show.

B: Yeah, anagrams, see?

C: Yeah.

B: He knows to look out for anagrams.

C: There it is.

B: Oh, I love his anagram vision.

C`: Is this not what it's like for you?

B: I mean, it is. This is what my brain looks like at all times, highlighting individual letters very slowly.

C: I like one of his eyes is glowing like Cable right now.

B: Yeah, and if you were to look up at another human, they would be a glowing skeleton, like detective mode on Arkham Asylum.

C: It's the hair, it's like additional feelers for anagrams.

B: That's right. My anagram sense is tingling. Leonardo da Vinci, the Mona Lisa. Why? Why did you need to hide that in a code? I feel like if you had just written that on the ground, people would be like, that's weird. Why did he write Leonardo da Vinci, the Mona Lisa on the ground?

C: He had time to do a full anagram. I almost swore. You could just write the identity, you could write, hey, the person who killed me was Paul Bettany.

B: Yeah. I was killed by the Viszh.

C: See, she appears, what? Oh, right, right.

B: Yeah.

C: Historically. Historically speaking.

B: Historically.

C: Female.

B: I probably don't need to point out that his conclusion about the Mona Lisa being intersex is a nonsense. Like I probably don't need to point that out, right? Like that's a made up thing.

C: Yeah.

B: Mona Lisa, it's just a portrait of a lady. It's notable because it got stolen a bunch of times.

C: And I mean, it's also very good.

B: I mean, it's good, yeah. Oh, there it is, anagram vision again. Black light anagram vision.

C: DaVinki.

B: DaVinki. DaVinki?

C: Do you have any general feelings about Leonardo da Vinci?

B: I think he is good. I'm pro da Vinci.

C: Pro.

B: I shouldn't even say da Vinci. The movie does that. That's not his name, right? It's telling you where he's from. I'm pro Leonardo. He is, when I was a kid, he was my second favorite Ninja Turtle.

C: Donatello?

B: Yeah, you know I'm a Donatello guy.

C: Yeah, of course, of course. There's a cool guy and a guy who's fun, not for you.

B: Yeah, get him out of here. I want the smart one.

C: You mean the nerd and the responsible one?

B: I want the smart one, and then I want the responsible one, and then the other two, I can take or leave. I was definitely, yeah, Raphael was definitely my least favorite turtle. I would say now probably, especially thanks to the Nickelodeon series, I would say Michelangelo is probably bumped up to my second fave, but I'm still a Donatello mark. I know you're a Michelangelo guy.

B: 100%. Right? Yeah, of course you are. You are the party dude.

C: Yeah, I feel like, I'm a Michelangelo.

B: Yeah.

C: You're a Donatello.

B: Yeah.

C: Matt Wilson, with whom I do the War Rocket Ajax podcast, and some other podcasts, 100% a Raphael.

B: He's, yeah.

C: Which means I--

B: Who's Leonardo.

C: Yeah. Yeah. We're waiting for a Leo.

B: Dark, dark, the Khan of Man. Rise the demon Etrigan.

C: I like how mad you just got that we call him Leonardo da Vinci.

B: No, that's just another, it's just another correction for the movie. It's called the da Vinci code, right? Like that's like, that's not his name.

C: Yeah, it's the code da Vinci.

B: Yeah.

C: Where did he make it up then?

B: Well, okay, all right.

c: It's like the Manhattan Project.

B: Most people don't remember the final line of his backwards written journals that say, "Leonardo da Vinci floated away on an ice flow and said, 'It's okay if you call me da Vinci, I don't mind.' The end." That is a reference to a very specific Viral Chips Zdarsky tweet.

C: That's very funny. That's very funny. But I think, look, we all know that the last line of Leonardo da Vinci's backwards written notebook was "Yankee Rose." That one was even more obscure. Congrats.

B: I mean, I'm pretending I got it because I didn't. I was about to say it was actually... It was actually... It was Kurt Russell is the last thing he wrote before he died.

C: Sounds very funny. Sounds very funny. Yankee Rose, I believe is the last line of Anton Levay's...

B: Oh, okay.

C: Backwards.

B: Yeah, all right, okay.

C: So I actually got closer to the podcast than you did that time.

B: Yeah, not bad, not bad.

C: What I was gonna say is, I have never been able to think about Leonardo for years. 'Cause you know, like there was, I feel like before, and I'm not ragging on you here.

B: Okay, thanks.

C: Well, you didn't, but before everyone was doing comics about Tesla, I feel like a lot of people were doing stories about Leonardo.

B: Sure.

C: And he was a brilliant inventor. And I just remember, I don't remember who it was, but someone was like, yeah, I could come up with a helicopter that doesn't work too. And I was like, yep, you know? I hate to say it, at the end of the day, that dude did come up with a helicopter that does not work.

B: Yeah.

C: And also the Cryptex.

B: Yeah. All right. I have to admit, I've lost the plot thread of the movie here.

C: Well, right now, Paul Bettany is in his robe walking along this secret trail that is clearly marked on the ground.

B: Right, right, right.

C: Because it is a tourist attraction.

B: Right.

C: Which is very good, I think.

B: So, yeah, yeah, that's a real church. And they have... and it's in the book, and it's in the movie. And if you go there, they have a sign up that's like, "Yeah, this isn't a thing. They made this up. The secret bloodline of Jesus is not contained under this building."

C: Paul Bettany also doing a great accent.

B: Yeah, I was like, what accent is this? Is it Spanish? Is he supposed to be Spanish?

C: You know what I didn't get until like, my wife and I were reading about this movie after we watched it?

B: Yeah.

C: Is that one of the other sources of controversy was like that Paul Bettany is playing an albino.

B: Oh, right.

C: I didn't get, I just thought he was like Billy Idol.

B: Yeah, you know what? Look, it is specified in the book that he's an albino. I didn't quite, yeah, I didn't quite get that in the movie. He just, yeah, he looks like, well, he looks like the, he looks like the Victor Shade vision.

C: Yeah, I mean, I guess we are used to seeing him, You and I in a very specific way.

B: Yeah. But you're right, I had forgotten there was a controversy about people who were saying this was poor representation of albinism. It does not turn you evil.

C: No. If we were doing this in text, I would have made a joke how that cop just now was Columbo, but spelled E-A-U-X at the end.

B: Nice.

C: 'Cause he's French.

B: He is French, yeah.

C: Yeah.

B: That, don't do that. That's a historical place. You can't just Indiana Jones the floor like that.

C: Yeah, that ashtray is really holding up.

B: Yeah, I know, right? The ashtray, more durable than the floor.

C: The stone floor.

B: Yeah.

C: Yeah.

B: Probably not an ashtray. Don't, thank you church experts. You don't have to tell us. Job. That book is from the Bible. Just a quick fun fact there.

C: That's the, you didn't wanna like pull up the verse?

B: No.

C':' Just wanna say the book of Job can be found in your local Bible.

B: Yeah, it looks like, see the thing is, to the lay viewer, it may appear that you pulled up a piece of stone that said job on it. No. It's actually a reference to the biblical book of Job.

C: Right.

B: This guy is doing some heroin in the park.

C: Not usually like an outside drug, I feel like.

B: Yeah, right, like not a public drug.

C: Not usually when I usually stumble across someone out for a late night stroll cooking up a spoonful of heroin. I don't know, I've never been to Paris. I don't know what it's like out there.

B: He needed the table to set his gear up.

C: Job 38:11, by the way, is "Hither too shalt thou come, "but no further."

B: Oh, okay, so that's why he stopped.

C: So it's basically like elaborately carved stone that says, "Sucks to be you."

B: Yeah, that's why he stopped smashing things with an ashtray because the Bible told him to. no further, smash no further. Which is all, that's also the message of the Apostle Paul, smash no further.

C: Love it. Here's the great thing about this flashback is they have desaturated it because that's how things looked back then.

B: Yeah, right, that is what the world looks like during the Crusades. Yeah. There's no connection between the Knights of Templar and the Priory of Sion.

C: Right, the Knights of Templar, as we all know, were formed to stop the assassins from finding the magic apples left by aliens in the secret room under the Vatican, which is why Leonardo had to get involved.

B: Right.

C: At the Auditoria di Firenze.

B: Right.

C: It became a sicino.

B: So a Priory of Sion like I was saying was a hoax from the 50s. It was basically a guy who, like I said, he wanted clout within the occult subculture of Paris in the 1950s, but he also wanted to say that he was the true king of France because he was descended from the Merovingian line. And so his hoax included tracing himself back to a name that long-time listeners of the show will recognize. Hopefully Godfrey of Bouillon, the ninth of the--

C: I hope listeners recognize that one because co-hosts do not.

B: Yeah, well, we brought him up because the idea is that you, universal you, would not recognize him. Godfrey of Bouillon was the ninth of the nine worthies, right, when we talked about the nine ideal knights. There's three Jewish, three pagan, three Christian knights, and the other ones included like, you know, King Arthur and Judah Maccabee, King David, and people you've definitely heard of, and then the last guy is Godfrey of Boullion. But Godfrey of Boullion was a crusader, and he was--

C: It's The Shield and Jaguar and the Fly.

B: Yeah, exactly. Yes, he was part of the Archie Comics line of heroes, the Red Circle. But yeah, he helped establish the Crusader State, the Kingdom of Jerusalem. And so, and he did establish an abbey, not a priory, in Zion, on Zion. And so...

C: HEXO24.

B: The difference between an Abbey and a Priory is minor, but someone out there cares about it, and so it's not even a Priory of Sion. It should be the Abbey of Sion, but okay. It's a street address, you idiot.

C: Yeah. It's... you gotta go down to HEXO. That's not a good way to hold a pencil.

B: Yeah. That's the French way. That's the French way.

C: Kind of how Erik Larsen holds his pencil.

B: I was gonna say, I was like, is it too deep a cut if I say this is how Erik Larsen holds a pencil?

C: Probably most of our listeners have watched Erik Larson sketch, I'm sure, at a con outside of Atlanta in 2005.

B: Yeah, so like, Erik Larsen was the first comics artist that I knew and loved when I was a kid, because I loved his Spider-Man.

C: Yeah, that makes sense.

B: And so I first met him at a convention probably like 2001 2000 2001 or something.

C: I don't mean this in a rude way but he does kind of like look like Paul Bettany.

B: Hmm I could see that. If Paul Bettany had all of the hair stripped from his face.

C: Right if Paul Bettany was grimacing just a little bit more.

B: Yeah if he was a little more Homer Simpson looking.

C: Yeah, that would kind of give you... I do feel compelled. We don't mean this in a rude way.

B: No, I mean, I still like Erik Larsen. I still read his comics because even though they're incredibly strange, they are his unique vision and I'm always surprised by the things he puts on the page. Even though his Twitter occasionally needs a couple quick passes through an editorial board before they hit the screen so he doesn't put his foot in his mouth. But anyway, yeah, the shock to my system the first time I saw him drawing live, I was like, what is this?

C: He holds his pencil like a T-Rex.

B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's very strange. Like his wrist is like parallel to the page and his fingers are perpendicular to the page. I don't know, it's hard to describe. Isn't Ian McKellen in this movie?

C: Yeah, but much later, much later.

B: Yeah.

C: Trying to get that magic medal from Harry Osborn. Just won't hand it over.

B: Yeah. This blood, it means something.

C: Why do, what is he, a bishop? What is he, a bishop? A cardinal?

B: He might be a cardinal because of the red of his garment might indicate he's a cardinal.

C: Well, listen, I was just asking why did they wear the big belts, that's all.

B: Oh.

C: I don't know if you know.

B: I don't know. It's because they're Spanx, actually.

C: I am like legit very fascinated with like the symbology of like clothes and such like you know when you see like like the coronations and such and they gotta wear right?

B: Oh yeah like I mean everything that...

C: Who wrote that down for...?

B: ...like all those things have they have names and they have there's reasons they exist and not only that there's like every every piece of clothing that's part of like a priestly garb that exists in the Catholic church has its own like equivalent in the eastern church that has a different name. So it's like they're the same thing but one name comes from Latin and one name comes from Greek because you know schism, baby.

Most Wanted. Harvard symbologist, Robert Langton, anomaly.

C: Yeah.

B: Le directeur des nuits. I'm the director of the night.

C: It's a cool key.

B: It is an extremely cool key.

C: Probably get all the way to Dodongo with that one. I should get a safe deposit box.

B: Yeah.

C: And put clues in it.

B: Put clues, yeah, put clues in it.

C: Problem is I feel like the clues would be... Probably the most valuable thing that I would be able to put in there unless I'm putting my PS5 at the end of a treasure hunt.

B: What if it were, yeah, they were recursive clues though. So you solved the clue, and where does it lead you to? The safe deposit box that you got the clues out of.

C: So I put key to the safe deposit box in the safe deposit box.

B: Yeah, yeah, you're getting it, yeah. So I see what's happening here, right? The Knights Templar, the historical Knights Templar, not the fantasy version, did actually kind of create many other practices that essentially: banking, right? And so I see the connection here. They're connecting the idea of the Knights Templar inventing banking with their oldest safe deposit box being the Knights Templar, the military arm of the Priory of Sion. I see the connection that's happening. But that part is historically true. The Knights Templar essentially invented banking.

C: Explain.

B: So because their job was basically to accompany Crusaders to and from the Holy Land as people were traveling, they created a way that people didn't have to carry their valuables with them because they were given a, I think it was a token of some kind that would represent their money. So they could deposit their money, go to another branch essentially, and then give them the token and withdraw the money that they had deposited in the other location, if that makes sense.

C: Okay.

B: So, I mean, the idea of the...

C: The robot then brings them their gold.

B: Yeah, that part also from the historical Templars. Yeah, they were way ahead of the game on robotics technology.

C: I'm glad that we came to that conclusion, because I have always been picturing the Crusades as, like, the opening of Terminator.

B: Right.

C: So, knowing that is a hundred percent accurate is yeah it's very comforting for me.

B: Was it? Was the rose a symbol for the Holy Grail? What's the source on that? I don't remember that from Chrétien de Troyes.

C: If you had a subtitle there, it would have been "Dismissive French Accent."

B: Yeah.

C: So, where does Holy Grail stuff come from?

B: Yeah, so, well, it comes from Chrétien de Troyes, which is, he's the author, the French romance author who wrote Percival, the story of Percival.

C: I imagine that you mean romance in the classical sense and not like...

B: Yes, yeah, not like a Fabio cover.

C: Met a lady he didn't like, but then, uh-oh, she found out that he was actually... like, he had a rough past.

B: That's right, yeah. But yeah, in the story of Percival, he ends up in the Grail Castle, the land of the Fisher King, the Wounded King.

C: Castle Grail Skull.

B: Castle Grail Skull. And in the original, the Grail's not a cup. It has nothing to do with the Holy Chalice, the cup of the Last Supper. It has nothing to do with Joseph of Arimathea or the cup that he used to catch Jesus's blood. The word "grail" even, it comes from the Latin word "gradalis," which refers to a "crater," which is a shallow dish. It would have been a serving dish rather than a cup. Normally you would put...you would serve fish out of it, but in the case of the Holy Grail, it carries a single host, which is the only food that sustains the life of the Fisher King. And it's only later that it gets connected by other authors to the Holy Chalice and becomes more of a cup and has any connection whatsoever with Jesus. In the original Percival, it has nothing to do with it whatsoever.

C: So when does that get thrown in? It all seems like stuff you would know. We have not rehearsed any of this.

B: No, we haven't rehearsed it. I mean, and yeah, this is stuff that I know. I think it gets connected when, there's a work called Joseph of Arimathea that tells the story of Joseph of Arimathea coming to Glastonbury and bringing the Grail with him and all that stuff. That's kind of when that happens.

C: I feel like referring to the Holy Grail as the source of God's power on earthI -- it's not like his power battery.

B: No, no, it was a cup that he had.

C: Yeah, it's not his--

B: And indeed, arguably, the power of the Grail comes, it's vice versa, right?

C: Yeah, that's what, yes.

B: The Grail has power because of its connection to Jesus and not vice versa. There we go.

C: Now see this, okay, apparently the like collector's edition Blu-ray of this movie came with a Cryptex that you could reuse, like you could change the code for it and have like a nice little bit of fun.

B: That rules.

C: That has made me want to buy the collector's edition.

B: Yeah, right, it's like, I do want the Cryptex. Yes, that's right, you can't force it. If you try to force it, the vinegar breaks and it erases all the text from the vellum inside.

C: I, okay, I have a lot of questions about this.

B: Yeah.

C: Like the Cryptex can't be airtight, which means that that 400 year old vellum is not doing so great. I have to imagine.

B: It probably has yellowed to some degree.

C: Yeah. Especially if it's a drawing in Sharpie, that is not archival.

B: It probably has crisped up a little bit in there if I had to guess.

C: Yeah.

B: Yes, it is not.

C: Oh man, I forgot about this.

B: Uh oh, what is about to happen?

C: I forgot that she uses her, it's almost like she heals him with a touch, it's very interesting that she can do that.

B: Hmm.

C: Also, has any story telegraphed its ending harder than this one does?

B: Yeah, I mean, I feel like at this point, any viewer is trained to know that if you show the interior of a traveling car from, there's certain angles, if you show it from, you know that car is about to get hit by, they're about to get T-boned by an oncoming truck or something.

C: Yeah.

B: Like there was a time when that was a huge shock, but now it's been used enough, I think people know that technique. So she healed his headache by telling him the story of how her parents died in a car crash, is that what just happened?

C: Yeah, she made him less nervous about riding in this car.

B: But okay, I see his claustrophobia was acting up, I got you.

C: Yeah.

B: I see what's going on.

C: And so she made him less nervous by telling him about this horrible car wreck that resulted in multiple fatalities.

B: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

C: But she lived, so, you know, that's good.

B: Oh. Great swerve, Langdon. I don't know what you're talking about. We don't have a box. We didn't do murder.

C: I will say, I do appreciate that Robert Langdon is in fact depicted in this film as like a huge dork, which he should be. Like, he is not exactly a man of action, and I like that.

B: Yeah.

C: I like a hero who reacts realistically in stressful situations. I like screaming and wanting to quit. It's why I like Sailor Moon so much, really.

B: Oh, the old shell casing in the door trick.

C: Yeah, I've watched this movie twice and I have no idea what he just did. I did not get it the first time, I do not know now.

B: Oh, so the expended shell casing from when he tried to shoot at him, he kicked it into the door frame so that the back of the truck door would not close. and as the guy is trying to shove it closed, Robert Langdon slams the door open on him and knocks him backwards.

C: That's... seems like a lot would have had to have happened that did not involve him getting shot, which seemed to be like the more present danger, but okay, look, it worked, I guess, so.

B: Yep.

C: Who am I to criticize?

B: Yeah, nobody hates history.

C: Nobody hates history. Not on this show.

B: That's right.

C: Nobody hates history.

B: Neither of those things are real. You are correct, Amelie. Priory is fake, the Holy Grail is fake, sorry.

C: I like that you keep calling her Amelie, that's very funny.

B: Yeah.

C: It's especially funny because we keep calling Tom Hanks Robert Langdon.

B: Yeah, Robert Langdon and Amelie, they do a team-up with Magneto to fight Dr. Octopus and stop the Victor Shade vision.

C: Yeah. Yeah, you got it.

B: There's a lot of surprising number of Marvel universe people in this.

C: Yeah, like Amelie.

B: Like Amelie, yeah. My favorite installment of the Marvel Cinematic Universe.

C: I would pay a not inconsiderable amount of money for one of those Marvel Treasury like mid-70s John Buscema, like adaptations of Amelie.

B: Yeah, that would rule.

C: Like a Jim Shooter-scripted adaptation of Amelie.

B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Has Jean Reno been in any Marvel anything?

C: Uh, sure, he's, surely he has, all right.

B: Right, like, I can't bring it to mind, but it seems like he has to have, right?

C: I know he was in, like, I mean, he shows up anytime anyone needs a French person.

B: Right.

C: You gotta think, just burns Gérard Deardieu right up.

B: Yeah.

C: Is Gérard Depardieu still alive?

B: I think he is, but I think he has retired from acting. If I--

C: Just haven't seen him around in a while.

B: Yeah. I'm trying to remember even the last thing that I know of for sure that he was in, and I can't think of anything more recent than him playing Obelix in the Asterix movie.

C: Jean Reno has not been in the MCU.

B: Wow.

C: Astoundingly.

B: I mean, obviously he's implied in the backstory, he trained Jane Foster from a young age.

C: Right, right. Jean Reno would be a very good false tag, I think.

B: Ooh.

C: I mean, look, no shade to Ray Stevenson, who is also a very good false tag.

B: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

C: Let's see, Jean Reno was in "Alex Cross" in 2012. That was the movie with the tagline, "You don't cross Alex Cross." Starring Tyler Perry.

B: Yeah, Tyler Perry. As an action hero.

C: Yeah. He has to have been in something that I watched recently, 'cause I remember having the thought, "that's Jean Reno."

B: Yeah.

C: Maybe it was just when I watched The Da Vinci Code, because I'm back in 1999 in his IMDB and I can't, I'm not seeing, I would have watched it.

B: Yeah, I don't know. I feel like there was something I saw recently that had him in it too, but I don't remember.

C: Was it "The Professional"?

B: No, I have not watched "The Professional" recently.

C: You should.

B: Yeah, I know it's good. I mean, I probably haven't watched it since I was in college.

C: It's good. It has a part where Gary Oldman says everyone really loud.

B: He says everyone, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I have seen that part, obviously. I do periodically just go to YouTube just for that part.

C: Yeah.

B: Are we at Ian McKellen's house now?

C: Oh, is this the... Johnny Teabing or whatever his name? He has a ridiculous name.

B: His name is Leigh Teabing. And Chris--

C: Leigh Teabing, that's it. Thank you.

B: Your anagram since should have been tingling, but the problem, yeah, Leigh Teabing.

C: Is it Beignets or am I just hungry?

B: It's, (laughs) so Teabing, T-E-A-B-I-N-G, is an anagram for Baigent, B-A-I-G-E-N-T, who is one of the authors of "Holy Blood, Holy Grail," and one of the other ones, Leigh. So this guy's named after two of the three authors of Holy Blood, Holy Grail, and then those guys, the guys who sued him, and he had to be like, no, I wasn't, I didn't copy from your book. And they were like, one of the main characters is named after us. It's like, no, your name isn't T-Bing. Yeah, so cool anagram that no one would ever guess, but like, you should be on the alert, 'cause Teabing is such a, no one has that name. That's not anybody's name.

C: Okay, listen, you say that, but I feel like there is a big exception in my, if I see unusual names, I will anagram them. That exception is made for British names.

B: Yeah, sure.

C: Because look, no offense to anyone out there. We can all admit that they are ridiculous, like just in general.

B: They are. I feel like our British listeners would concede that that is true.

C: It's all like Swindlemere.

B: Swindlemere, yeah. Cottingmenture.

C: It's always like 26 names too.

B: And I love that, yeah, and they're hyphenated.

C: Yeah.

B: So many hyphenates.

C: Like we looked up Ralph Lauren at one point. At some point, I forget why, but you know, sometimes you're just hanging out, having a nice romantic evening with your wife, and you bust open, oh. Ralph Fiennes, Ralph Fiennes, not Ralph Lauren.

B: Okay, I was like, okay. Yeah, Ralph Fiennes, okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

C: I got distracted by my pronunciation of Ralph. Okay, this man's name is Rafe, spelled Ralph, Nathaniel Twistleton Wykeham Fiennes. You're telling me that's a name.

B: Yeah. Chris

C: Twistleton hyphen Wykeham. That's W-Y-K-E-H-A-M. Fiemnes F-I-E-N-N-E-S. Billy

B: Yeah. Chris

C: Twistleton Wykeham Fiennes. Really now. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with it. I'm just saying it's an unusual name to my American...

B: Oh, for sure.

C: Here we go, here we go, this is this is the scene where I was like this is gonna make Benito's head explode.

B: Constantine. All right.

C: Right

B: Baptized on his death bed, I'm, not sure...

C: Constantine.

B: ...that's true. Yeah.

C: If you're reading the comics. Mm-hmm.

B: Okay.

C: I don't, but I mean, my understanding of the Roman Empire is slightly different than that, but okay. This is a good scene.

B: Whoa.

C: I do like the dudes just charging into each other, but they're holding like like five foot high crosses.

B: Yeah, yeah yeah.

C: It's gonna tear Rome in two.

B: I mean Rome did...

C: Yeah, like what a wild alternate history in which that happened.

B: Yeah, yeah, crazy, crazy version of events where the Roman Empire was torn in two, following the reign of Constantine. Yeah, I mean, that had nothing to do with Christianity, though. Yep, here we go, Council of Nicaea.

C: Uh-huh, where is he? Where's our boy? Where's our guy?

B: Oh, yeah, where is it? No, they did not discuss biblical canon at the Council of Nicaea. That did not happen. It was the Arian, yes, they did debate and decide how to calculate the date of Easter. That is true. Otherwise they were dealing with the Arian heresy and minor, minor schisms within the church.

C: I don't know who I'm gonna believe, you or Magneto.

B: Yeah, I mean...

C: I mean, I do have a shirt that says he was right.

B: Yeah, it's... all right. Magneto was right. They discussed biblical canon at the Council in this year. It was decided by Constantine.

C: It's not semantics, it's symbolics.

B: It's symbolics, that's right.

C: See... Yeah, I see I also don't necessarily think that's right given what what we have read Yeah Say first and second century texts,

B: Right? I Mean, I feel like we have seen You know evidence of at least adoptionism in in Even even mark,

C: Right? Right.

B: You can you can argue it and so I mean It does, I mean, especially if you're looking from the perspective of a historical Jesus, obviously there's a point at which they start to ascribe divinity to Jesus, but what one of the weirdest things about this is the presentation of like, oh, the Gnostic Gospels are the ones that talk about that the divinity of Jesus is fake and that he was a mortal man, which that is, um... That's the opposite of what Gnosticism is, right? Gnosticism hated the mortal flesh so much that they said Jesus was a hologram. If anything, within Gnosticism, which again is not like a single unified movement, but rather a trend in various different movements, but the general... in general within Gnostic texts, Jesus is arguably more divine than he is within orthodoxy because he was not tainted by the flesh, right?

C: Now, as we can clearly see from this photograph of the Last Supper, there is no wine glass.

B: Yeah.

C: Now, show me these symbols for Man and Woman. Hmm, hmm.

B: All right, yeah, okay.

C: Hang on, hang on a second.

B: Oh, triangles.

C: Yeah, is that geometric?

B: Yeah, it is geometric. All right, you've given away the game. You've given away the game with the triangles. I mean, I have read the book, so I know what happens.

C: Right. I feel like the plot of this is not complex. It's got a lot of nonsens in it.

B: Right, also they're just being so, they're not being subtle with this mystery.

C: Yeah.

B: Like they're straight up being like, there's an upside down triangle and a right side up triangle. Where have you seen that before? Viewers of the movie, The Da Vinci Code.

C: Yeah, there's, okay, now this is a big V. Almost as though.

B: Yeah. Or are they?

C: Or are they?

B: I mean, they are.

C: Look closer at this photograph.

B: Look, there's an upside down triangle. That's a woman. No, it's not. It's not. Oh, long hair. Can you believe he did a painting of a person with long hair? Hint of a bosom. Hint of a bosom. My favorite Al Pacino movie.

C: That's incroyable. Uh... Who is she? Okay, Ian's got that one right.

B: Yeah, I mean, that is true. But not officially, I mean, not, like that's not official church doctrine. It was a pope who wrote that, but it wasn't like, he was an ex cathedra, And also recent years, the church has walked back on the idea of Mary Magdalene being a sex worker. Oh, buddy, buddy, buddy.

C: There are theories.

B: Yeah.

C: Are they? Yeah. And if you do a Photoshop tripck.

B: Yeah, zoom enhance.

C: As if to create geometry.

B: Right, I saw the triangle already. Thank you, okay, good, thank you.

C: My--

B: In case you didn't see triangles, here it is.

C: Conspiracy theories are of dubious entertainment value, I think. But I do genuinely enjoy going and looking at conspiracy theorists, like circling triangles in various things.

B: Yeah, yes. Okay, here he's referencing the Gospel of Philip, which is a real apocryphal gospel, which does mention the primacy of Mary Magdalene among the disciples. That is a real thing.

C: In those days.

B: No, that's extremely dubious.

C: Yeah, I was gonna ask if that one was true.

B: Yeah. There is a gospel of Mary. Yeah, I don't know when, at some point, we need to do an episode where we cover the Gospel of Mary and the Gospel of Philip.

C: Kind of... why we've got it all right now?

B: We got all the info here, we don't need anything else.

C: Yeah.

B: And we could also--

C: Solid.

B: Also devote a segment on that same episode to the gospel of Jesus's wife and the controversy surrounding that. Here's this old chestnut.

C: This is a good one.

B: So this is from, so I mean, this is obviously from "Holy Blood, Holy Grail." I mean, that's where the title of that book comes from.

C: Right. He didn't have this PowerPoint slide made up. He has to use his telestrator.

B: Royal blood.

C: And what was he drinking? That's right, a sangria.

B: Yeah. Every time I hear sangria, I think of that episode, you may not, I don't know if you've seen this, there's an episode of Sanford and Son where somebody gives Fred Sanford a sangria and he takes a sip and he's like, "Oh, this sangria is good. What does sangria mean?" and he says, "Blood," and he just does this most comically over-the-top spit take. And so I think of Fred Sanford spitting out sangria every time I hear that word.

C: That's very funny, given that I have a hard time imagining Red Fox turning down virtually any substance. That man wore a Coke spoon on a necklace.

B: Incroyable

C: I know we saw it like 40 minutes ago. By the way, this movie has an hour and 16 minutes left.

B: Shh, Jesus Christmas.

C: I know we saw it a minute ago, but I did forget that she had this weird memory of seeing Eyes Wide Shut as a child.

B: The Hexenhammer.

C: Yeah.

B: In paperback, that's a first edition.

C: Yeah.

B: Oh baby, is that a Montague Summers edition? I thought I saw his name on the cover there.

C: Couple of Steve Ditko illustrations on the cover there.

B: So I should also point out, talking about the Priory of Sion, the guy who did the hoax, Pierre Plantard was his name, he did connect himself to the Merovingians. It was only later that other people took that and then connected it to the bloodline of Christ. And so he got to see within his lifetime people amplifying his own hoax and making him not only the true secret king of France but also the true heir of Jesus Christ and he was like "okay I mean I'll run with it if that's what you guys want to do with my secret society."

C: I mean look if someone came to me and said hey I'm I believe you are the secret true king of France yeah yeah sure um do you do you want to maybe maybe get pizza tonight? Can your king of France maybe get like 20 bucks?

B: Yeah, and also, no, it's not impossible. In fact, it's incredibly likely. I know we've talked about this before when we talked about the genealogy of Jesus, right, being descended from King David. There's a thousand years between the two of them. The way that genealogy works is within a thousand years, literally everyone in that region would have King David as his or her ancestor, right? There would have been no one in Judea at the time that wasn't descended from King David.

C: Exactly the the Laurel Kemp problem?

B: Yeah, exactly. And so I mean like similarly, if Jesus did have children anyone in that region, it's essentially a 100% chance that they would have DNA of Jesus in them.

C: Well you know there's, there's a way for all of us to to get Jesus in us Benito, you have to accept him.

B: You accept him into heart, you eat him with your mouth right, and his actual the substance of his DNA although not the accidental properties of his DNA will be in you... Transubstantiation is really weird and we get a lot of we get tagged in a lot of weird transubstantiation posts on tumblr. People are like "is is communion vegan," "is communion gluten-free," and so on. The answer is, unless you have a gluten-free host, which are available at some churches if you ask for them, a normal host, a gluten-sensitive person, would still feel the effects of it because even if it transubstantiates into the flesh of Christ, the accidental properties of the bread remain. So it would still be glutenous.

C: I'm sorry, please explain the phrase "accidental properties."

B: Yeah, that's what they call it. It means like the physical properties. So like the essence of the bread is transformed into flesh, but the matter of it is not necessarily. Which, is that a weird hedge? Yes, it is.

C: It's... okay. I mean, you do... Look, you do want to have an answer for everybody who's like, "Is this a cannibal thing?"

B: Right. And also...

C: If not, why not?

B: And also, it would be... It is... It would serve as a counter to Alan Moore's argument from V for Vendetta, right? Where V feeds the priest the poisoned host, and he says, "If it changes is to flesh, you should be fine," right? And, but, while the substance of the host would change, the accidental properties, i.e. the poison, would remain. And so, even with a truly transubstantiated host, that priest would still die from the poison host. So correct me if I'm wrong, Father Stephen, or whomever, but I believe that is the doctrine of transubstantiation. The essence, the substance of it is transformed into it, but not necessarily literally the matter of it. Uh-oh.

C: I'm gonna be real with you.

B: Yeah.

C: And again, like, we, honestly, we do our best to be respectful of these things. I feel like it would be okay if it was just symbolic. Right?

B: Right, and most churches agree with you, right? Like, I grew up understanding that it's a metaphor, or being taught that it's a metaphor. I don't wanna say that as if that is the correct version. But yeah, for a lot of churches, the communion, the Eucharist, or the Last Supper, or the Lord's Supper, as we called it in my church growing up, is a symbolic act. But for some churches, that's not the case. And like, for a church like ours, where it is a symbolic act, it's less essential to the church service process, right? Like in a Catholic church or a Episcopal church, or an Anglican church, or probably a Lutheran church even, I don't know that much about Lutheranism. I assume they do Eucharist every mass, right? Whereas in my church, we did the Lord's Supper, like quarterly, right? It wasn't every week, it wasn't even every month. It was like every three months.

C: The church that I was baptized in, the Presbyterian Church in South Carolina, we did, they did like a communion monthly.

B: Yeah.

C: Which, like, look, if you're gonna do it, like, you'll get a good three weeks of salvation out of this one.

B: Yeah. Did, what kind of host-

C: It's like charging up your MacBook. You don't want to do it all the time. It's just gonna run your holiness battery down.

B: Now, did you go up to the altar or did deacons-

C: Oh no, they pass it around.

B: Yeah, they pass it, okay. And what kind of bread did you have? Did you have the little chiclet style ones like we did?

C: A little wafer, yeah.

B: Was it like a little square rather than circle?

C: No, it was a circle. It was a circle.

B: Oh, it was a circle. Oh, okay. Yeah, ours were little white squares like chicklets. I mean, that's why it's--

C: Like the size of chicklets?

B: Yeah, basically the size and shape of a chicklet, yeah. So, I mean, it's essentially as much food as you would get out of eating an oyster cracker, basically.

C: Okay, so are we gonna talk about, are we gonna talk about putting the host in a chili, or no, we probably shouldn't.

B: Have I told the story of how I got in trouble 'cause I was at the church and I was hungry and I ate a bunch of communion wafers from the church kitchen? I can't remember if I told that story.

C: Surely you have, 'cause I feel like I knew about that.

B: Yeah, I think I probably have. You know, it was from the days when I was at church, you know, pretty much every day after school, wandering around, I wanted a snack, looking in the church kitchen, what did I find? Yeah, communion wafers. And I ate a bunch of them, and my dad extremely yelled at me. He's like, they're not goldfish crackers. You can't just throw a handful of them back.

C: I mean, or can you?

B: I mean, you can. Should you?

C: You can tell it's lunchtime, I think, at this point in this very long movie.

B: I feel like most of these things are saying about Opus Dei here are not accurate.

C: You don't think that they send Paul Bettanys out to Pauls Bettany?

B: But they do refer to Opus Dei as a personal prelature of the Pope, which is true, but way they say it implies that there's some special relationship between them and the Pope, but instead... so a prelature just means... so a prelate is like someone who's in a an overseeing position like a like a bishop. So a bishop would be your primary example of a prelate and but a personal prelature just means that it applies to persons rather than a place, right? normally a prelature would be geographic in nature but with an organization like Opus Dei, it's person by person because they're spread out around the world. So that's all that means. It does not mean that they are the secret assassin club of the pope or whatever.

C: Fine, just take away all the fun. A second ago they said like, "Hey, if we found out that Jesus had babies with Mary Magdalene, the Catholic church would face a crisis of faith unprecedented, and I don't think that's true. I think a lot of people would maybe go on Amazon and leave angry reviews.

B: Yeah, yeah.

C: Whatever book was saying that.

B: Oh, I don't know. What if, what if we did discover empirical evidence of something like that? Jesus was married and had children. Or we had empirical evidence that James the Just was the biological full brother of Jesus, therefore the perpetual virginity of Mary was not a thing. Like, would that change anything, do you think?

C: Well, I mean, here's the thing about empirical evidence and religion.

B: Yeah.

C: It is not that they are incompatible, but one is not strictly necessary for the other.

B: And in fact, one of them discourages the other, right? I mean--

C: Sometimes, I would say, in our personal experience, often.

B: Yeah, I mean, there are a lot of people for whom empirical evidence is bad, right?

C: We all know how the devil put dinosaur bones.

B: Yeah, exactly. The devil put dinosaur bones to confuse us, to tempt us into believing in evolution or whatever, or an old earth. But yeah, I mean, there's plenty of people that, you know, faith is the point, And so evidence of these things is counter to that.

C: Yeah, I mean, like that, look, there's a lot of empirical evidence for a lot of things

B: Yeah.

C: That I feel like many people don't bother with.

B: Sure, yeah, for sure. I still don't know what Alfred Molina's character is. I don't know who he is. He's the Vision's secret boss.

C: Yes, he's the secret, he's the secret bishop in charge of murdering Tom Hanks.

B: Right, okay, so he's the one trying to preserve the cover-up is what's going on.

C: Yes.

B: Okay.

C: But I think he has ulterior motives. When he was talking about the mysterious figure that they only call Teacher, it's him.

B: Right, okay, I remember that.

C: That's like when Bruce Wayne comes in and he's like, hey, have you heard about this Batman? I hear he's extremely handsome.

B: Yo, they take breaks seriously in France, bro. Like, ooh, he's... You know he's going on strike now.

C: Speaking foreign language.

B: Le plan de volle!

C: That means the plane of volle.

B: Mm-hmm. Yeah, it is a plane for the Tennessee Vols.

C: I do appreciate Ian McKellen trying to brute force the context.

B: Yeah.

C: Just gonna start with A-A-A-A-A.

B: That's right. Let's see. How many letters is it? The key is gonna be how many letters on that.

C: It's five.

B: Is it five? Yeah. So that means the number of possibilities are 26 to the fifth power. Let's see if I can... If I have entered that correctly into my calculator, 11,881,376 possibilities. That's a lot. I feel like it would take him a minute to enter that many.

C: By the way, I just want to say Benjamin Franklin Gates would have figured this out by now. We would be wrapping up.

B: Yeah.

C: See, look, that's what I'm saying. DaVinci didn't even know that you should have a capital letter and a symbol in there.

B: We need a mirror. Or just read it backwards.

C: It's not that hard. Also, I like that these people were like, "Well, Leonardo did write his notes backwards. I guess we should write our stuff backwards too, just put that extra set up there." They're not just any knights.

B: Yeah.

C: They're those hot summer nights.

B: Summer days drifting away, but oh, oh, those Templar nights.

B: Yeah, I feel, I love that it's like, yeah, we've instituted this crazy multi-step puzzle, treasure hunt. Let's make the words backwards, I guess. Anything we could do to add an additional step. Just flip those words around. That'll slow them down.

C: Yeah, they should have been, like they really just should have thrown, like... "Okay, so the Knights don't wear green hats, but they live next to..." I can never get those.

B: Oh, really, like logic problems like that?

C: Not the ones that require like a spatial awareness.

B: Like a chart?

C: Not my forte. Okay, I'm really good at the ones that are like, like you go into the room and there's like a candle and a box of thumbtacks and they're like, how do you, you have to put the candle on the wall.

B: Yeah.

C: Like how do you do it? Like those I'm good at. Like the non-linear thinking, but like the keeping track of things and arranging them in space, no thank you. No thank you.

B: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. What?

C: I mean, he does wear the little badge.

B: He's not even an albino. If I've gleaned correctly, right, that is a prerequisite.

C: If you had thought to do a quick anagram of Jean Reno.

B: Oh my God, it spells Opus Dei. How did I not see this? It spells Ide Soup. His name was Ide Soup this whole time? There was actually like the one, like it was either Bloom County or Outland. It was probably Bloom County that like I remember from my childhood is one where the kids are doing anagrams of their names in order to tell their future. And so like Milo is like, look, limo. And Opus is like, "Cool, do me." And it was soup. That is the Bloom County.

C: Very good one.

B: That's the Bloom County that has stuck with me. For some reason, that is not a newspaper strip that I have revisited in adulthood when I would actually understand it.

C: You didn't wanna go back and get all those really good jokes about Gary Hart?

B: Alas, I didn't feel compelled.

C: No. They are about to, by the way, they are about to pull a switcheroo that if I was the, where are they, England, if I was the United Kingdom police force, I would have sued for defamation. For insinuating that we could be fooled this easily.

Just gonna, just gonna pull into the garage.

B: Yeah, you know, the plane garage.

C: Yeah. What's that over there?

B: Is this a Silence of the Lambs switcheroo about to happen here?

C: You know I've never seen Silence of the Lambs.

B: Oh, well, they do a switcheroo where the police go to a house and then they cut it like this so it looks like they're there, but then you find out they're at the wrong house.

C: Oh no, no, they don't do that.

B: Oh, okay, okay.

C: They did just watch a plane land.

B: But London has what, like six airports or something? So they could easily have been watching a plane land at the wrong airport.

C: Look, that's true. You got me there. I was not as familiar with the number of airports in London.

B: It's a lot.

C: As far as I know, as of watching this movie, I knew the existence of two.

B: Yeah.

C: Hey! I do like Fabian Cortez over here. Magneto's man's are not that he has.

B: Yeah.

C: It's a fun little relationship.

B: Do they ever do Fabian Cortez in the X-Men movies?

C: No, no they do not.

B: Yeah, I feel like that's probably a bridge too far, bust into the acolytes.

C: Fabian Cortes, who our buddy David Wolkin, who's from the show, the only guest we've ever had on the show.

B: Yep, because we're really bad about booking guests.

C: Yeah, look, it's, c'est la vie.

B: Yeah.

C: He came up with the explanation of Fabian Cortes' powers, is that he makes mutants mutant harder, which I then put into a book, which is now a thing. Like it was, it has been used to describe Fabian Cortes in various places, which--

B: That makes it canon.

C: I am glad to be, I mean, I put it in books, so that's what made it canon.

B: Yeah.

C: But yeah.

B: I wish I could, well, I kinda wish I could hear the Latin dialogue. They were kind of whispering it over the phone. I don't have any idea. But do you have the bonds, is what he asked. I do know a lot of neo-Latin vocabulary. Do you not know what the Latin word for bonds would be? Let me see. Let me see if I can find it here on my neo-Latin lexicon.

C: We'll just find out what the Latin word for Barry is.

B: That's right.

C: Could have gone with James, decided to go with Barry.

B: Yeah.

C: Here's another hit, Barry Bonds.

B: Let's see if there's banking vocabulary in this lexicon.

C: There's so much of this.

B: Hey, here we go. A financial bond is a "sungriffa." So that is a loan word from Greek. But there you go. So if anyone needs to talk about financial bonds.

C: Shout out to Ian McKellen, who's been like, "Hey, do you wanna hear a fun story about your buddy's childhood trauma?"

B: The Latin word for mortgage is "hupoteka", another Greek loan word.

C: Is it, doesn't, isn't mortgage already like a Latin rooted word?

B: I mean it is, yeah. But, yeah, well, it doesn't always work that way.

C: How good is the movie The Da Vinci Code? Well, about halfway through, one of these guys got bored enough to look up what banking terms are in Latin.

B: Yeah.

C: But you have to understand, he finds that very interesting.

B: That's right, that's right. It takes very little to galvanize me into bringing up the old neo-latin lexicon.

C: See, this is the kind of puzzle I'm really good at.

B: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

C: See, this guy's got a sword.

B: So I've recently in the last couple weeks kind of slowly been making my way through a complete collection of the short stories of our guy, patron saint of this podcast M.R. James, Montague Rhodes James.

C: Mr. James.

B: Mr. James. A complete collection of his ghost stories. I'd read a lot of the famous ones. I had not read a lot of the lesser ones and so I got a really nice collection of all of them and I've been reading through them in chronological order. And a number, a couple of the stories kind of have this kind of treasure hunting puzzle to it, most notably, what's it called? "The Treasure of Abbot Thomas,"" I think is the name of it. It's one where a guy basically figures out that there's a hidden code in some stained glass windows and he uses it to lead to a treasure left by an abbot that is protected by a ghost. It's pretty good. Oh, that is a close shot. That's about as close as you can get.

C: I like how everybody in this movie just really is like, I need to position myself for maximum drama. Like when Victor Shade was like lurking behind the pillar and kind of had like wait for a Audrey Tautou to see him.

B: I don't think he's really sorry at all. Oh wait.

C: Saved by John Woo.

B: John Woo was second unit director on the scene.

C: It's funny, John Woo actually got that from the DaVinci code.

B: Wow, wow, wow, wow, that doesn't make sense.

C: Very inspired by it. Good thing, if it wasn't for Dan Brown and the DaVinci code, we wouldn't have Jean-Claude Van Damme punching a snake.

B: Oh, so you know, it was all worth it. Did you ever watch 30 coins, Chris? Did you go and watch it?

C: No, I didn't. I didn't.

B: Okay.

C: I want to, we've been in unprecedented times.

B: Yeah, sure.

C: For about a year and three months, which means we watch what my wife and I can agree on.

B: Right, right, right.

C: And I feel like 30 coins would have been a tough sell.

B: Sure, I can additionally try to sell it to you. It's a minor spoiler, but I will say that by the, as it approaches the finale, it does increasingly turn into a Bayonetta boss fight. So it is worth checking out.

C: You know how to sell it to me.

B: Yeah, and there's a part, the doves made me think of it. There's a part where the priest astral projects and possesses a dove so that he can scout out the city. It's amazing. It's amazing.

C: Okay.

B: Highly recommend 30 coins. Yeah, yeah. And we didn't really talk about it once 30 coins wrapped up, but I thought it was a mini series, right? So I thought it was supposed to be done, but no, that was season one. So like it doesn't, you know, there's a season-esque conclusion, but it doesn't conclude the entire story. So I'm very curious to see where it goes in the future.

C: You know, we don't usually take questions live...

B: Right.

C: ...on the show, which maybe we should have asked people about an hour,

B: Oh yeah.

C: like hour and a half ago when this movie started, if they had, I mean, we still have 45 minutes, so. I don't know if you wanna put the call out. We might be running out of things to talk about. I did just get a text from a fantastic artist, Jay Gonzo, who this was not for the show, but he did just text me, "Is Silver Age Flash the best costume in comic book history?" I'm curious to-

B: Bro, it's up there. It's up there, although I think, I feel like you would probably agree that some of the tweaks to that costume post-crisis were improvements I think.

C: Like the like the Wally West post-crisis costume?

B: Yeah yeah yeah. Not I mean not necessarily like the the glossy sheen that they added to it but I think changing the belt to the angled lightning bolts rather than the...

C: The change to the angled lightning bolts is good. I don't like the geometry of that original of that original belt.

B: And the removing the wings from the boots I think was probably a good thing. But yeah, I mean, it's way up there. I mean, it's Spider-Man is the best costume design.

C: Yes, that's literally, if you heard me typing just now, I was typing Spider-Man Dingo into Google Image Search so that I could just send him a picture of Spider-Man.

B: Yeah.

C: It's the best costume, 'cause it should not work. Everything about it is bad.

B: I feel like people don't necessarily recognize how significant good costume design is and how relatively few really good costume designers there have been in comics history.

C: I mean, like, you know, I'm just gonna send him the page from Spider-Man Annual #1 that has Spider-Man and Kraven.

B: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, dawg.

C: That's a couple costumes right there.

B: Man, that Spider-Man Annual #1 with the Sinister Six, with all those Sinister Six Flash pages, is so dope.

C: Like, that is the best for me that Steve Ditko ever drew.

B: Yeah, it's so good. But, I mean, yeah, as costume designers go, there's Kirby, there's Ditko.

C: Hey, here's a hot tip for you, by the way. Never tell someone with whom you are in an evil conspiracy, "I'll take your identity with me to the grave," because you will immediately die.

B: You will die. Yeah, you will die.

C: Oh, I guess it was Ian McKellen who was actually a teacher.

B: Oh, oh yeah, right. This is the twist where we find out that Leigh Teabing is the actual... When you say that, it sounds like a yellow menace villain when you say "Li Ti Bing."

C: Ooh yeah, really.

B: Anyway, what was I saying? Oh, Kirby, Ditko, Infantino, Dave Cockrum, Cory Walker. That's all-time top five costume designers.

C: You know, you're not wrong.

B: Yeah.

C: I feel like best costumes, while we're watching this thing about Alexander Pope.

B: Right.

C: Which, by the way, when they started being like, oh yes, this is the part of the puzzle that involves puns, I was like, yes, thank you.

B: Yeah, I missed, what's the connection with Alexander Pope? I mean, is the connection--

C: He's a knight that a pope interred.

B: Oh, oh, okay.

C: So it's Sir Isaac Newton.

B: Sir Isaac Newton, okay. Got it, got it.

C: Alexander Pope.

B: A. Pope, lord, that is, oh my god, that is Batman '66 level, that is... A. Pope.

C: That's right, they sold the submarine to P.N. Gwynn.

B: This whole thing is, it all adds up to one gigantic riddle. The Riddler!

C: And it happened at sea, for Catwoman.

B: Catwoman, this is...

C: I think between the two of us, you and me,

B: Yeah, yeah.

C: I think we, like, we could unravel any Knights Templar conspiracy. Any conspiracy that was hidden behind a series of riddles.

B: Yeah.

C: You and me could pretty much demolish if we did not get distracted talking about who has the best costumes.

B: Yeah, right, exactly. That would be the danger is that we would absolutely start talking about Dave Cockrum whie we should be focusing on like...

C: Here's the all-time best ones, right?

B: Yeah.

C: All-time best ones. Spider-Man.

B: Yeah.

C: Particularly once the the spider on the front gets the gets the four up four down.

B: Yes, right, right, right.

C: Like the original, like the Ditko spider is fine, but the four up, four down is like, mwah.

B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Underarm webbing, yay, nay.

C: I don't dislike it, but it doesn't need to be there.

B: Okay, also, I have a feeling I know where you land on this. Is it red and blue or red and black?

C: It's red and blue.

B: Awesome, okay.

C: It would be ridiculous, it's red and blue. I mean, it's also clearly supposed to be red and black in Amazing Fantasy #15.

B: It's, right. I feel like the Ditko design--

C: 'Cause he's a spider.

B: Right, I feel like it's meant to be red and black with blue highlights as comics so often does.

C: Yeah, and they looked at it and they were like, "Oh, right, he's the best superhero."

B: Yeah.

C: He's wearing red and blue.

B: And I feel like it's, I mean, it kind of remains ambiguous the way Ditko does it, but it's clearly unambiguously blue by the Romita era.

C: I mean, it's pretty blue. I mean, by the time you get to Amazing Spider-Man Annual #1, and certainly by the time you get to like 3...

B: Yeah, that's true. You're right, you're right. You're definitely right about that.

C: I will say, Spider-Man costume as drawn by Todd McFarlane, untouchable.

B: Yeah.

C: Untouchable. The best.

B: Yeah.

C: Those webs, oh, I love those webs. New Look Batman.

B: Yeah, New Look Batman, okay. That's an Infantino joint.

C: Yeah. I mean, specifically drawn by Jim Aparo, perfect ear length.

B: Yeah, right. I mean, yeah. I'm just saying the design, it's an Infantino design.

C: Yes. The ear length is a very important part of it for me.

B: Right.

C: Like Jim Aparo, best ear length. Second best Batman costume is first season animated series costume, which does the blacks with blue highlights really well.

B: Okay, yeah, great.

C: You know what, Superman.

B: Superman's real good.

C: Superman probably looks strong number three. 'Cause like, that's what they look like.

B: Yeah.

C: Like that's what superheroes look like.

B: Yeah. Oh, everyone's shooting each other in a hail, oh! Oh, I love it. I love the accidental gun murder.

C: Oh man, he's about to tell him he knew all along he was Peter Parker. Uh, Phoenix, which is a Dave Cockrum joint.

B: Phoenix, Phoenix extremely good.

C: Sash?

B: Yeah, green or red? Which version?

C: Green.

B: The green.

C: I mean, like, Dark Phoenix is a good suit, but Dark Phoenix is a good suit that's like riffing on, like it's Byrne riffing on Cockrum.

B: Right, sure, sure, sure, sure.

C: I like the big, the big gold logo.

B: Right.

C: And you know what? All them X-Men, all them Cockrum X-Men designs good. But Phoenix is the best one.

B: I mean, they are. They're extremely good. Thunderbird costume, awesome.

C: Nightcrawler still looks like that.

B: Yeah. They've tried to change it. It always comes back to the Cockrum look.

C: I think once you figure out that all of those costumes are supposed to be Legion of Superheroes costumes?

B: Yeah.

C: It makes perfect sense.

B: Yeah, yeah. Storm's original costume, clutch.

C: Yeah.

B: Colossus, yeah man.

C: Colossus, another costume that should not work, but does.

B: Yep.

C: Them big thigh-high boots, Colossus costume too sexy. Big thigh-high boots, it's basically one giant thong.

B: Yeah, they, um... The thing about Colossus where he has to somehow magically manifest blue leggings when he changes back into his human form because they know it would be too horny if he kept those bare thighs in his--

C: Mike Grell looking at that costume like, "Ah, that'd be a little much." All right, that's best costumes.

B: Yeah. Uh oh. This is great commentary on the film The Da Vinci Code. Um, starring Tom Hanks directed by...

C: You knew what you were getting into when you downloaded this.

B: Look, I know. I'm not surprised.

C: This is what episode 88? You knew.

B: Yeah. Yeah.

C: Been at this for three years, come on. Also, this stuff being interesting like half an hour ago.

B: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

C: It's gonna come back, it's gonna come back, but it does take some time.

B: Yeah, so--

C: I don't know how much they cut out of the book, but I do feel like they keep all of the journey and the traveling.

B: Yeah, I mean, probably so.

C: We're about to definitely see some Robert Langdon Mind Palace.

B: Mm, nice.

C: So I'm just like looking at, I have a dual monitor set up.

B: Yeah.

C: You actually get like a monitor and then I have my MacBook is plugged into it. So I have the MacBook screen. That's where the DaVinci Code is playing. Then the monitor screen, the much larger screen is just Todd McFarland's Spider-Man's.

B: Nice.

C: I'm like, you know. I noticed you put, you put Corey Walker on there.

B: Yeah.

C: You didn't put Jamie McKelvie though, who I would say like, of Corey Walker's generation, probably better known.

B: Jamie McKelvie, Chris Anka, I would put up there as well, of the modern class. It's probably top three of currently working artists.

C: Good costumes from Jamie McKelvie.

B: Yeah, for sure.

C: If you're unfamiliar with Captain Marvel.

B: Captain Marvel and Ms. Marvel.

C: Ms. Marvel has not yet been in the movie. She's coming.

B: She's about to be. They've revealed them as Ms. Marvel, a photo of her from the forthcoming...

C: I'm just saying people who have... people who don't know who Jamie McKelvie is...

B: Okay.

C: ...may not have seen Kamala Khan.

B: Okay, but she's coming in Captain Marvel 2 which is going to be called The Marvels. She's in it and they have released a photo of her.

C: Just let me just roll this ancient, fragile device across this uneven stone floor.

B: You know it's full of a fragile container of vinegar that could shatter and erase the text at any time.

C: That is very old. Like this is not this is not Da Vinci's cryptex. It's not the Da Vinci cryptex. Yeah, but it is old.

B: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

C: Vellum.

B: The password is Sophia. The password is Sophia, isn't it?

C: Uh, too many letters.

B: With an F. I don't know, I don't know.

C: I think her name is Sophie, which is also too many letters.

B: Right, but I, yeah, I don't know.

C: I think it's, I think it's, it's one, two, three, four, five.

B: He was an old man, so yeah.

C: Love, sex, money, and God.

B: It's, it's P-A-S-S-W, that's, that's as far as he could get.

C: Yes. What's 16th century Italian for password? Probably much longer.

B: Yeah, certainly ends in a vowel.

C: Everybody talks about the divine comedy being, like being a poem, like it rhymes like that's difficult to do in Italian, come on.

B: Yeah, in fact--

C: Only three ways that words end.

B: Ancient Latin poetry, it was considered gauche to make it rhyme because of how easy it is to make Latin rhyme.

C: Let's see, we did Amelie jokes, we did tattoo jokes. Anything else?

B: Oh, we're entering the mind palace.

C: You've got to think about those orbs. What orb is missing?

B: Let me consider the symbology of it all.

C: Hmm. Orb.

B: Orb, that's what you say when you complete a level of the Super Mario hacks. When you touch the orb, you say orb.

C: Okay, hang on. What are you talking about?

B: In Super Mario World, there are some levels that you--

C: There's one level with an orb in Super Mario World.

B: Yes, but Super Mario World hacks often end with orbs, and you indicate that you have completed that level after touching the orb by saying the word orb.

C: Okay, so you're, okay. I got it, you're talking about watching you cathode ray tube videos.

B: Yes, I am.

C: That's, you know what, that one didn't really work. We like to de-abbreviate things sometimes.

B: We do, yeah, we do.

C: Didn't quite go.

B: You vacuum tube.

C: You vacuum tube, that's good. No.

B: No, the vinegar, no.

C: No.

B: Why didn't you reach out? Oh boy, I saw that vinegar splash.

C: Yeah. Oh man, perfect for your fries though. Take that right down the street, get some fish and chips.

B: Get you... The grail is gone.

C: Don't you remember that? Don't you remember Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade, Leigh?

B: You chose poorly Leigh Teabing.

C: I'm just going to conspicuously keep my hand closed.

B: Yeah.

C: Something none of these cops would take notice of.

B: The police busted in with guns before I could make my clutch smack-barn-pewet reference that I was gonna make when we were talking about the chippy there a second ago.

C: Some professional questions.

B: Mm-hmm. Extremely profesh. Vinegar is out, the grail is gone.

C: Looks like the Cryptex had it, oopsie. That's okay. Okay, freedom from what though?

B: Yeah, free, yeah, freedom from--

C: Like, 'cause here's the thing that I think these, like movies of this type and like stories of this type, don't really like realize, you could just not be Catholic.

B: Yeah.

C: Like it's actually fairly easy to not be Catholic. I did it by accident.

B: Yeah, that's true. I also fully unintentionally became not Catholic. One of the interesting things that's part of the mystery is, you know, partially it's elevating Mary Magdalene to the role of divine feminine, but it also is--

C: Yes, the Sacred Feminine, much like the title of the book by Robert Landon.

B: Yeah, the sacred feminine. But also it's removing the divinity of Jesus. So it's like, why would Mary Magdalene, a goddess, get together with Jesus, a human carpenter, if he were not also something, right?

C: Well, like that's the thing, it doesn't really remove the divinity of Jesus. Like it just, like.

B: Yeah.

C: Like that wasn't, like he wasn't, that's not where he got his power from. Like he wasn't a bullfighter.

B: Right.

C: Where he was like, no, I better not. Otherwise I won't be able to turn that water to wine.

B: Wait, did he reveal what the secret code was on the Cryptex?

C: He did, but I forgot what it was.

B: Okay, well.

C: What is the secret code to open the Cryptex? Let's see. Oh, the word Cryptex is a neologism coined by the author Dan Brown.

B: Wow.

C: Uh, oh it's from the Greek.

B: Uh huh.

C: Uh, and Latin.

B: Mm hmm. Oh, the word Cryptex.

C: Yeah.

B: Oh, okay, yeah, yes.

C: Yeah, I'm sorry, it's just like, uh. Oh, it's Apple? It's Apple 'cause of Isaac Newton.

B: 'Cause of Isaac Newton.

C: It's orbs.

B: Orbs, baby. But yeah, I get it. It's okay from the Greek and Latin. Yeah, kryptos, hidden, and then codex. I got it. I'm with you. Neologism.

C: Does it bug you when there are combined Greek and Latin? Does it keep you up at night?

B: No, not really. I mean, there's a lot of them. Television is an example of one in English that combines Greek and Latin roots. Pseudoscience would be another example of one. It happens.

C: This, okay, this is like if the Historian, the book The historian was bad.

B: Yeah, yeah.

C: If DaVinci Code was good, it would be the book The Historian. Which everyone should read if you haven't. It's very good.

B: Right.

C: It took me an entire year to read it, but.

B: The Historian owns, because the one major thing that The Historian has that The DaVinci Code does not is Dracula.

C: Yes.

B: What if this movie had Dracula in it?

C: This movie is like 30 seconds away from having Dracula in it at any time.

B: What if Jean Reno had been revealed have been Dracula the entire time.

C: What if Alfa Marlina had been revealed to have been Dracula?

B: Well, okay.

C: And that's why he threw that goblet on the ground. He was like, "What is a man? Miserable little pile of secrets."

B: You know what, what is this movie but a miserable pile of secrets?

C: Great, we've got an episode title.

B: Yeah.

C: Okay, this part, that part blew my mind.

B: That the Star of David is the combination of-

C: The Star of David is actually two Illuminati triangles. It's actually a secret pagan symbol.

B: Yeah.

C: Like, that's maybe who should have put this in the release of the Da Vinci Code. I'm thinking.

B: Yeah.

C: Oof, it's geometry, man.

B: It's geometry. Did you even realize that the Star of David was two triangles?

C: Did you know that Solomon used geometry?

C: Yeah, I did. And did I know that he used that to control demons to force them to build a temple? I did also know that.

C: Yes, of course he did. I know you know.

B: That, stars.

C: Yeah, stars.

B: The moon.

C: I like that they had to look up and then look down.

B: Yeah, hey, as above, so below.

C: The Fleur de Lis. It's old.

B: It's a symbol. It's a symbol of flowers.

C: And Lis.

B: And Lis, Leigh Teabing.

C: Tea.

B: It's all coming together.

C: Tea, the favorite drink of that pernicious puzzler, the Riddler.

B: T, that stands for trouble, and it rhymes with P, that stands for pool.

C: And what lives in a pool? That's right, a penguin.

B: Oh. Here's a fun fact that I found out.

C: I do like that they could have just gone here the whole time.

B: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean.

C: Like the the last obstacle was a little chain across a doorway that said "private".

B: Yeah.

C: That's the last thing they had to get past.

B: Pretty much.

C: And also people are here and they keep their little, they keep their little bankers files.

B: And of course the idea that Mary Magdalene went to France and founded the Merovingian line, We know that that is from medieval stories of Mary Magdalene, some of which we read a portion of in our episode 69 when we talked about Mary of Egypt and we compared her story. We also, I know we talked about Space Kook Mary Magdalene in that episode as well, but those stories are based upon conflating Mary Magdalene with Mary of Bethany.

C: Yeah, okay, so that was another thing. They keep saying they're they're trying to find the tomb of Mary Magdalene, but as you mentioned, we know where the space kook is.

B: Yeah.

C: We know where the astronaut Mary Magdalene is.

B: Yeah.

C: Is that just not something Dan Brown looked into? Did he not look up, 'cause this thing came out in 2003, so the internet was around.

B: It was, it was around. I mean, he should know that. He is the author of the book "Digital Fortress" or whatever it was called. Was that also, is that a Robert Langdon joint, or is that one of the--

C: What is Digital Fortress?

B: It's another Dan Brown book.

C: I don't know about that.

B: All right, let me look it up. I don't know if it's--

C: Is that that movie that I watched where it said the president has a special button in the White House that will turn off all the internet?

B: Buddy, maybe.

C: That was Net Force, that was Net Force.

B: Oh, okay.

C: A television film, that's right. Tom Clancy's Net Force.

B: Nice. Digital Fortress is a techno thriller novel written by American author Dan Brown published in 1998. It is not a Robert Langdon book.

C: Or is it? Is it set in this world though? Like does anybody mention, hey, do you remember when the Illuminati tried to blow up the Vatican with an anti-matter bomb? And Ewan McGregor died in the helicopter.

B: I do not know, but I do see that the Wikipedia page has an entire section called "Inaccuracies and Criticism," so we know he is consistent.

C: Or is--

B: The story behind the meaning, the story behind the meaning of the word sincere is based on false etymology. Wow, who could believe that Dan Brown would fall for a false etymology?

C: Okay, but like, is it false information, or is that just what the Opus Dei Knights Templar want you to believe?

B: That's what, yeah, that's what they want you to believe.

C: I like how it took Amelie this entire movie, to be like, "Hey, wait a second."

B: Oh yeah, my grandfather and all these spooky dudes and robes.

C: Yeah, and also, like what he told me about my family dying, that turned out to not be true, which I knew as a child. I'm gonna say, I should wait a second for maximum dramatic impact, but I'm gonna say it now so I don't forget, Amelie-sus.

B: Right, okay, that's the revelation. What? He was the Prior of Sion. It's you. You're the DaVinci code. You've been the DaVinci code this entire time.

C: You truly were the DaVinci code.

B: The real DaVinci code was the friends you made along the way.

C: Had to do it.

B: Yeah.

C: Had to do it. And this is you, isn't it? I don't know, Robert, that is a newspaper from 30 years ago that's been sitting on a desk. Maybe it's me?

B: I love that he says, "The newspaper says "the entire family was killed." Yeah, bruh, that's the headline, and it's in the language that she speaks, and she's looking at it. She knows.

C: Yes, but would she have been able to understand the symbols?

B: You mean, they're called letters when they stand for sounds.

C: Mm.

B: Sang royal, yeah.

C: As previously discussed, when you said that you knew what that meant.

B: Also, again, she is a native French speaker. You did not have to translate "Sang royal" all for her. You've really been dragging this out. Like, we landed on this a while back.

C: Also, also, Robert Langdon's awfully calm about this.

B: About finding the direct--

C: The direct descendant of Jesus Christ, yes.

B: Of Jesus Christ, yeah.

C: Yeah. Like again, I feel like if it were you and me, we would have solved this mystery like 45 minutes ago.

B: Yeah, which we would have. He hasn't even done, he hasn't even posted up for one high five yet.

C: Yeah, I feel like we would maybe have said a cuss, and then felt bad about it, 'cause you don't wanna.

B: Yeah, you don't wanna cuss at Jesus' granddaughter.

C: Yeah.

B: I mean, he is so unfazed. You did it, you solved, you broke the Da Vinci code, you solved the mystery, you uncovered the secrets to the Priory of Sion. You survived an attack by the Opus Dei.

C: Maybe he's just tired. 'Cause I do feel like he has not slept since this movie began.

B: Right, he has definitely been awake since his triangles/face lecture.

C: Maybe that's why he did that slow turn up to the ceiling. It's just like he has not slept in 36 hours. But he would be laughing a lot more, I think.

B: Yeah. There's a whole bunch of people dressed entirely in brown, have walked into this--

C: Dan Brown, that is.

B: Dan Brown, that is the name of the Pantone shade.

C: Yeah man, it's a symbol.

B: It's a symbol for Dan Brown, the author of the book, The Da Vinci Code.

C: It's brown, or as it's also known, dun. Dun brown.

B: Oh, dun brown, oh my, we're cracking this wide open.

C: Priory, of course, means before.

B: From before, yeah, from before. Because they're from history.

C: Right. Well, I hate history.

B: Yeah, well, little did she know that she was history this entire time.

C: But Sophie, you are history.

B: You've been history this entire time. Like, I don't mean this as a negative against that woman, but her face was incredibly wrinkled.

C: Yes.

B: A shocking amount of wrinkles on that point. She looked like a Frank Quiteley drawing.

C: That's rude. Should never tell someone that.

B: I looked at the runtime because I was about to make a joke about there still being 20 minutes in this movie left. And guess what?

C: 15.

B: 15 minutes.

C: 15 more.

B: How is this not the denouement? Like, we've uncovered, we broke the code, we discovered the tomb of Mary Magdalene, we uncovered the DNA lineage of Christ, the Priory of Sion has returned.

C: We have learned that that she is the direct descendant of God.

B: Right.

C: But we haven't done...

B: Geometry.

C: We haven't found out about that geometry.

B: We haven't circled, no pun intended, we haven't circled back on the geometry.

C: We haven't triangled back.

B: We haven't triangled back.

C: I just realized how ridiculous it is, like for Ian McKellen to be like, "Hey, tell her what the male and female symbols were." And he doesn't, like he does the little thing with his arms. He doesn't just go, "Oh, it was a triangle."

B: It was, it's an uppy triangle and a downy triangle.

C: Yeah, it's like a pyramid. And then like, it's like if you go into an elevator, those.

B: Yeah, it's those.

C: Yeah.

B: The up one is a ding-dang and the down one is a uterus. You get it. There it is. Dads can't do miracles. Everyone knows. And you're French, so your blood is full of wine.

C: Sangria.

B: Sangria, what does that mean?

C: Maybe you healed my phobia with your hands. I called that one.

B: Oh, she did lay on hands and cure his phobia.

C: So, paladin of the third level or higher.

B: His cloister phobia.

C: It's actually, it's funny you should say that. It's actually abbey phobia. There's a slight difference. Yeah, I heard that somewhere. This movie takes place in the weird Jack Chick world where Robert Langdon is like, "Oh yes, God is 100% real. I just don't care for him." Nobody doesn't believe. It's just like, yeah, we're on the outs.

B: Yeah.

C: Hey, go get a kombucha, kid.

B: That sweet chaste forehead kiss. Because you can't, you can't kiss Jesus' daughter. You can't do that.

C: You can't just like make out with Jesus. Although this movie does actually posit that you can in fact make out with Jesus.

B: You can, in fact, yeah.

C: This movie does suggest that Jesus did in fact, like to get down.

B: Okay, that was a decent bet. She dipped her foot in the water as if just to test, can she walk on water?

C: That was fun.

B: That was fun. That's fun, that's fun.

C: Well, that about does it for this. Oh, wait, nope.

B: No.

C: Back at the Ritz. What is? Oh, okay. I thought that was a little brush for some reason.

B: That he was just brushing his face?

C: Yeah, but not with a change of brush, but with a tiny brush.

B: So, yeah, he covered his face in face paste, and then he took his face--

C: Sangria!

B: I love it. He hadn't thought about blood until he saw blood.

C: Right, right. It turns out that there was another puzzle that was in his own book.

B: Own book? In his own book. He's looking for the secrets in his own book. Buddy.

C: Look, even I don't, even I did not go get a copy of X-Men to talk about Fabian Cortez.

B: But they were... Okay, the Rose line, which is in the Sansa Soltice(?). No, right? Or something, I don't know. But they already went to Roslyn Chapel and that was supposed to be the Rose line. But it has a double meaning, you're telling me?

C: Uh-huh, 'cause the Rose, you might remember, the rose is the symbol for the Holy Grail.

B: Is the symbol for the Holy Grail.

C: Which is Sangria.

B: Yeah.

C: Which is Jesus' blood.

B: Right. And--

C: What would happen if Dracula bit Amelie?

B: I think total annihilation.

C: Okay.

B: The blood of Christ, I think, would destroy him beyond the possibility of resuscitation.

C: Here's my theory. It would turn him good.

B: Ooh, interesting. I like it.

C: Yeah.

B: Triangle. Robert Langdon, there's a triangle behind you.

C: Look at all that geometry. Robert Langdon. The blade and chalice.

B: The blade and chalice. That's how he talks dirty to Rita Wilson.

C: Again, we did not rehearse that. That was just us saying it disgustingly at the same time.

B: Yeah.

C: And so they built this so that you could just, 'cause that's fairly new.

B: It is.

C: Yeah.

B: Yeah. The inverted pyramid at the Louvre, yeah. It frankly does, it does not reach back to antiquity. I don't want to spoil that for anyone.

C: Okay, do you think that they had the prophecy or that they went back and rewrote the prophecy and moved some stuff around? Like they had to put all those stars up on the sun?

B: Yeah, probably.

C: All right, only the penitent man will pass.

B: That's right, yeah, that's what's happening. Oh man, oh buddy.

C: Take us down there, Ron Howard.

B: So wait, what is the, so who or what is supposed to be under there?

C: This is Mary Magdalene, yeah.

B: Okay, Mary Magdalene's tomb is actually down there, okay.

C: Is underneath the geometry at the Louvre.

B: Right.

C: Which they went ahead and moved it there. But somebody did go in there to put that black rose very artistically.

B: Yeah, that rose, symbol of the grail.

C: Right.

B: Did her eyelid just flutter? That's not even her body, that's just carving up her. Wow, wow.

C: The body's in the box.

B: Directed by little Ronnie Howard, Opie Taylor himself. There it is, we did it. We broke the Da Vinci code.

C: We did. Shouldn't have worried about whether or not we could work in Roy Thomas. And maybe like a half hour talking about how good Spider-Man's costume is.

B: Yeah.

C: Any verses stuck out to you on that one?

B: Yeah, I definitely caught even any single line of dialogue from that film.

C: I did have a couple of Amazon reviews pulled out in case things got too slow and we didn't wander off...

B: Yeah.

C: ...to talking about the things we usually talk about. A lot of them are like the one that I read at the top of the show that are like grumpy people, and then also there's much five star reviews of people who are like, "yes, this is a million percent true. The Illuminati are 100% trying to reach you through Ron Howard."

B: Yeah. Ron Howard's not even Bavarian. You're not convincing me that he's Illuminati.

C: Because, well, what would we all like to go back to? That's right, happy days. That's what we need to be led to by becoming illuminated. I did want to read this though. This is my favorite review. This is a verified purchase from Mrs. C. Callahan. "Delivered very quickly and received Blu-ray and not ordinary DVD as ordered. So I hope it will play okay. Advised by my wonderful next door neighbors to get this as I have not seen it. Not watched it yet, but anticipating a really good film." Five stars.

B: Wow.

C: Headline on that one, "delivered very quickly." Those are my favorite Amazon reviews.

B: Yeah, now that is, that's faith. Faith as the evidence of things unseen.

C: What's Netflix recommending to you right now as a followup to that, as the chaser?

B: Let's see, Angels and Demons, Inside the Freemasons, The Code, The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo, Sex Explained.

C: Yeah, that's a bit of a reach, honestly.

B: The Two Popes, 2012. The apocalypse one with John. Why have I blanked on the name of this very extremely famous actor? You know, John, the actor John, and his sister Joan.

C: I hope people hear this and they get a new appreciation for what I do in the edit.

B: Yeah. Hey, I don't frequently forget his name.

C: That's true.

B: Why am I, Chris, from "Grosse Pointe Blank" and from "Better Off Dead," his sister's name is Joan, his name is John. Help me out here.

C: I believe in you.

B: I'm drowning and you're Phil Collins-ing it.

C: I would not lend a hand. It's Cusack, John Cusack.

B: Thank you, it's John Cusack.

C: There you go. Like a sinner in the hands of an angry god. Just wanted to dangle you over that fire for a little while. I'm getting recommended Notting Hill.

B: Amazing, okay.

C: Which is, I can see it. I can see it.

B: Yeah, all right. Oh, Paul Bettany is in that, no he's not. Is he? No, he's not.

C: Hugh Grant and Julia Roberts.

B: I was thinking Hugh, I was thinking he was a supporting character, but I was thinking of that guy with the Welsh name that played the lizard.

C: Kurt Connors.

B: Ifan Rhys or whatever his name is.

C: Kurt Connors.

B: He played Kurt Connors.

C: We know what he did.

B: Yeah.

C: The terrible thing.

B: He ate Hugh Grant. In About a Boy.

C: All right, it's surprisingly not three o'clock in the morning, but like we're in that mind state.

B: Yeah.

C: What are we gonna do next? I don't think we've talked about it, but are we gonna, Samuel, is it time for Samuel?

B: Let's just do first Samuel. We'll do first Samuel. I need to look at it, but we might need to, that might be one that gets broken up into two episodes, but we'll definitely at least start First Samuel. It's what everybody wants, has been asking for for so long. We've been telling them we'll do it. That's what we'll do next.

C: Right. I feel like this is, what's less canonical, this episode or the Wisdom Tree episode?

B: Probably this one. Yeah, probably this one.

C: Yeah, that's true. That's, the Wisdom Tree episode at least had Noah in it.

B: That's true, yeah, and David and baby Jesus. Three Kings, so on.

C: Yeah.

B: Joshua, of course, who was courageous. Okay, anyway, so yeah, so first Samuel, next, let's do the outro, here we go. Hey everybody, until then, if you wanna have more sweet Apocrypals content, please find us on various social mediums, including Twitter, where we're at Apocrypals.

C: How dare you?

B: Say social mediums?

C: Yes.

B: Yeah, it's when you have a fortune teller who's very gregarious, it's a social medium. Also on Tumblr, Apocrypals.tumblr.com.

C: You know full well the plural of that would still be media, and please continue, go on.

B: Tumblr, apocryphalus.tumblr.com. And find our Discord, apocryphalus.com/chat. Please join our Discord, which is very fun, full of cool people, and then other people as well. Just kidding.

C: Yeah, you're there.

B: I am there.

C: Real Donatello.

B: I'm, yeah, I bring a very strong Huey Duck energy to the chat. We were watching, my wife and I were watching DuckTales Season 3 last night and it was only then that she goes, "You're Huey." I was like, "How have we watched three seasons of this that you're just now catching on to the Huey energy that I radiate?"

C: Which one is Huey? I mean, I know Huey's the red one, obviously.

B: Yeah.

C: Obviously.

B: Yeah. Have you not watched the new DuckTales?

C: I've watched a little bit of it, but I can't.

B: Oh, okay.

C: Just, I can't distinguish the voice.

B: He's the one voiced by, oh man.

C: John Cusack.

B: Danny Pudi. Yeah, he's voiced by John Cusack. He's the one voiced by Danny Pudi. He's the one that is super into the Junior Woodchuck's guidebook and always overthinking things. And he wished for the divine power of intuition when he had the opportunity to have any superpower. Versus Dewey, who's the middle child. And so he's the one that's always clamoring for attention. And then Louie, who is the lazy, greedy one.

C: I think we all know which one I am.

B: I'm...uh...yeah. We won't say, but let's do a carry-on to the remainder of the outro. Mm-hmm. Uh, yeah, so please join us on the Discord. That's what I was getting at. And, um, help us out, support the show by going to ko-fi.com/apocrypals. K-O-F-I dot com slash apocrypals. leave us donations in increments of $3, or I think even at this point you can, they don't even have to be increments of three. Just send us money.

C: Hey, while we're on the subject, can we give a special thanks?

B: We can to the person, I will say their Kofi name was Lorelei. I don't know if they want their actual name said, but super shout out for the amazingly generous donation that essentially paid for the majority of the new pair of glasses that I needed.

C: Look, I don't know if it's gush to say it. It was half a devil.

B: It was half a devil. Normally we don't say the amount of money that people send even when they're very generous. But yeah, we did get the semi-diable as Audrey Tautou would call it. So yeah, thank you to everyone who's donated. We are 100% listener supported. So anything you can do does help us keep the show going. If you want to help us out otherwise in a non-monetary fashion, please leave us a rating or review on your podcast app of choice. Let's see where we are at on reviews on Apple Podcasts. We are at-- get that site to load. I think we're very close to 400. Here we go. 398, 398 ratings and reviews.

C: 22 more.

B: Let's see, we have a review from someone who said, "Our Discord helped them uncover "the firmness of Batman's ears." So it's more than just Bible stuff. Please leave us a rating or review. We're at 398. Once we hit 420, we will put together a special bonus episode on the topic of the history of the church and the reasons for various schisms and the different denominations and still on, a much requested topic. So also just tell your friends, your in real life friends, your online friends, talk about us on Facebook or Reddit discussions or whatever. Please, please do that. It helps us out. Word of mouth is the number one way that this is gonna get spread around, so appreciate it. Let's see, yeah. Go to our merch store, check out teepublic.com. Please use the link in the show notes to check out our various pieces of merch and other pieces of merch by other designers that we have highlighted. Otherwise, if you're looking for me specifically, please find me on Instagram and Twitter @benito_cereno. What about you, Chris?

C: Everybody can find all my stuff by going to the-isb.com. That has links to everything that I do here and there around the web. Other podcasts that you can list do, comics that you can buy if you want to find out more about Fabian Cortez And who doesn't? Yeah, you can find it all there. That's it for our commentary track on the DaVinci Code. Let us know if, hey, if you made it this far, let us know.

B: Yeah, please do.

C: Put that in the Cryptex.

B: Yeah.

C: But we will be back next time for 1st Samuel. Until then, for Benito Cereno, I've been Chris Sims. As always, remember, Black Lives Matter.

B: Trans rights are human rights.

C: And until next time, Benito, peace be with you.

B: And Audrey, Tautou!