View source for Literally and Figuratively Wrestling With God (Transcript)

'''Chris Sims:''' Hey everybody, it's Chris and Benito here. Before we start the show this week, we would like to issue another content warning for this episode.

'''Benito Cereno:''' Yeah, not quite as bad or as plentiful in terms of variety as last time. However, there is definitely a chapter that recounts a scene of sexual assault. And so if that's the kind of thing that's going to make you uncomfortable, maybe skip, or we'll see you next week.

'''C:''' And that is going to be, if you would like to listen up to that point, it's going to be fairly late in the show. It is the chapter about Dinah. So keep that in mind going forward. And enjoy the show. "He reached a certain place and spent the night there, because the sun had set. He took one of the stones from the place, put it there at his head, and lay down in that place. And he dreamed. A stairway was set on the ground with its top reaching heaven, and God's angels were going up and down on it." The Book of Genesis, chapter 28, verses 11 through 12.

[MUSIC: "Stairway to Heaven" by Led Zeppelin]

'''C:''' Hello, friends and neighbors, and welcome to Apocrypals. It's the podcast where two nonbelievers read through the Bible, and we try not to be jerks about it. So if you're here, you're heavenly hosts. My name is Chris Sims, and with me, as always, the other half of the Sons of Thunder, Benito Cereno. Benito, how are you today?

'''B:''' Pretty good, man. It feels like it's been 7 million of years since we did this show.

'''C:''' That's the most number of years.

'''B:''' Yeah, it is. And I definitely-  so yeah, people who only listened to the show probably were like, where was the show last week? People who also didn't see our tweets about it also messaged me asking where the show was last week. Yeah, we took a skip week, guys. I'm sorry. We had to. It had to be done. It was Labor Day. I hope you guys all enjoyed your Labor Day. But it's one of those things, the realities of the freelance lifestyle, end of the month, you've got to hit that invoice deadline. It's a thing.

'''C:''' Also, I did get a new video game, and that's literally all I did for Labor Day weekend. But you know what? I deserved it. Because we've done four hours on Genesis so far.

'''B:''' Yeah, yeah.

'''C:''' This is going to be the third of our now four-part series on Genesis, plus we're going to have a wrap-up episode with our very first guest coming up in a couple weeks. That's very exciting.

'''B:''' Yeah.

'''C:''' Two things. First of all, I realize this week's intro music was a total layup. I gotta take the easy ones where I can.

'''B:''' Absolutely, man. I would have judged you if you hadn't, to be honest.

'''C:''' The other thing is, you know what we would have done if we were smart? What we would have done if we were both smart, instead of just you being smart and me being some kind of capering fool?

'''B:''' Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

'''C:''' A Pierrot, if you will.

'''B:''' Yeah.

'''C:''' What we would have done is do six parts of Genesis and then taken a week off.

'''B:''' Yeah. Who knows what we might have done. There's all sorts of things we might have done. Were we wiser than we are? Here's the thing, Chris. You know this. Some of our listeners may not know this. Despite the fact that I am pretty sure we are the only, the internet's only Bible podcast.

'''C:''' Why is no one else talking about this book? It seems very important.

'''B:''' It's very strange. And somehow we're still not number one on the iTunes charts for Bible podcasts. I think I don't understand that at all. But, so despite that fact, there is another podcast that on paper is very similar to this one that actually ended just before we launched this one. Some people know about it. We didn't know about it until after we announced and launched Apocrypals. But a couple people have come to us since then to let us know there's another podcast. It's called Sunday School Dropouts. On paper, it is the same as this show. Like it is two non-believers going through the Bible and they recap it and they do some goofs. And so on paper, very similar to this.

In practice, it's quite different, I think. If you guys were to go check out their show, which is good. I've only listened to a couple of episodes 'cause I don't wanna subconsciously take anything from them. But I did wanna check out and make sure, by the same token, make sure that we're not doing the same thing as they are. I think you'll find if you listen to it, we're actually quite different. They did cover some Apocrypha on their show. They definitely didn't do the story of Ahikar. They didn't do the ascension of Isaiah, but they did do the Acts of Peter and a couple of things we've talked about on the show.

'''C:''' So Apocrypals remains your number one source for Eagle Boys.

'''B:''' Number one Ahikar podcast. Someone make that chart on iTunes so we can please be number one at something. But the reason I'm bringing it up is because one of the episodes I listened to was their first episode. And they definitely did the Bible in canon order. They started with Genesis. They ended with Revelation. Their episode on Genesis, the first episode of their podcast, first of all, that's really, as you can tell from our coverage, that's jumping in with both feet. They covered all of Genesis in one hour.

'''C:''' How?

'''B:''' Well, and you know, like I said, different styles, different approaches to the show. They definitely did not discuss the documentary hypothesis at all. They recap the stories. They tell some good goofs. They talk about who they are, but they cover it. Yeah, they cover everything from Adam down to the death of Jacob in chapter 58.

'''C:''' I don't know. Like I legitimately, I haven't listened to the show 'cause again, like you, I don't want to unconsciously absorb and steal something. Nothing at all against Sunday School Dropouts. I have actually heard very good things from listeners of this show. So shout out. I don't understand how you could even just talk about what happens in this book and not be here for the equivalent of a work day.

'''B:''' It's true because I tried to convince you that this week we could do the back half of the book if we just focused on recapping the stories and not delving into a bunch of extra stuff. If I wasn't going into a bunch of midrash or if I wasn't, you know, talking about different demonologies or critical textual criticism and that kind of stuff, I thought, I was like, surely we can get through these last 25 chapters. And you were like, no way. We're breaking it up into two parts. And so-

'''C:''' No, absolutely not. Jacob goes and has adventures for 20 years.

'''B:''' Yeah. Very many sheep related adventures. Yeah. So anyway, yeah. To me, like the key difference between that show and our show is that we're now, you know, by the end of this episode, we're going to have, you know, we're going to be five and a half hours deep into Genesis and not be finished. And they covered it in one hour. And on the flip side, they also spent an hour talking about "Third John," which is a book that's less than half a page long. So I don't know how they did that. I think they had a guest.

'''C:''' I bet we could manage.

'''B:''' Yeah, we probably could, but I think they had a guest on the show to do an interview or something for that episode. But so who knows what's going to happen when we get to some of the shorter books. But anyway, if you like the idea of the show, but you think we suck real bad, maybe you should listen to that one, but don't, because we're really good and we worked very hard for this show. We love you.

'''C:''' You can also listen to it if you don't think we suck real bad, Jiminy Christmas.

'''B:''' You can like two things. You can like two things. It's fine.

'''C:''' You should like us more though.

'''B:''' - Because we're very lovable and we put in the work.

'''C:''' And we crave validation to a psychologically detrimental extreme.

'''B:''' We absolutely do. Hey, Chris, I got another thing I want to talk about.

'''C:''' Hit me.

'''B:''' All right, man. So you know how I said I was going to put some effort into trying to talk about holidays before they happen instead of after?

'''C:''' Uh-huh.

'''B:''' Yeah, so there's a big important one coming up that will actually be right after this episode hits.

'''C:''' I bet I know which one it is.

'''B:''' Do you?

'''C:''' Yes, well, because I had to go buy greeting cards this week.

'''B:''' Yeah.

'''C:''' And so I saw some Rosh Hashanah greeting cards at my local paper source.

'''B:''' Yeah, that is the time. So yeah, coming up this week is Rosh Hashanah, as they tend to say in America, but I'm going to do my best. Rosh Hashanah, Rosh Hashanah. That's coming up. The first day of the month of Tishri, and that's going to hit on Monday, so very soon. And of course, you know what Rosh Hashanah is, Chris? Like what that is in the Jewish calendar?

'''C:''' It has to do with apples?

'''B:''' True, apples are related, which is something I think you and I, as captains of the Apple Club, can get down with.

'''C:''' By the way, heads up, everybody. Blessings be upon you. It is apple season.

'''B:''' It is apple season.

'''C:''' It is high apple season. Honey crisps are out now.

'''B:''' Yeah, man, go get you some, and don't stop eating them until they start importing them from New Zealand, and then you can just throw that in the trash. Anyway, let's see. I thought you might know what it is, but since you don't, that's great. Let's see if we can put it together from the language, from the Hebrew that we have learned so far on this show. All right, so Rosh is a new word, so we'll come back to that one. But I think you can figure it out.

'''C:''' Okay.

'''B:''' Ha-shana, so ha we have learned is a definite article, means the, and then we did talk about shana and what that means on the Tobit episode, because I talked-

'''C:''' Right, 'cause we talked about Shana Tova.

'''B:''' Right, do you remember what that means?

'''C:''' No idea.

'''B:''' Okay, well-

'''C:''' I don't retain anything that we talk about.

'''B:''' I mean, you retained that we said Shana Tova, or Shana Tova, which means, it means good year. It means good year, so you can probably figure it out now.

'''C:''' Is it the new year?

'''B:''' - Yeah, it's Jewish new year.

'''C:''' - Oh, happy new year, everybody.

'''B:''' Yeah, but let's talk about what Rosh literally means, 'cause I want you to figure out, I think you can figure it out, not by the Hebrew, but by a cognate word from Arabic that I know you know.

'''C:''' It's head.

'''B:''' Yeah.

'''C:''' It's head of the year.

'''B:''' It's the head of the year, yeah, like Ra's al Ghul.

'''C:''' Yeah, I was gonna ask, do I need to explain how I know it as soon as you said Arabic?

'''B:''' I knew if I used the Batman avenue that you would get there. Yeah, so Rosh Hashanah, Rosh Hashanah is head of the year. And so yeah, it's the Jewish new year. It's the first of the high holy days. So once that hits, you've got like 10 days of other holidays that culminate with Yom Kippur, of course, the day of atonement. The high holy days are also known as the Yamim Noraim, which means the days of awe. So that's a cool name, even better. Rosh Hashanah is also known as Yom Teruah, which means the day of blasting because we're gonna put the old year on blast and we're gonna bring that new year in. It's actually called that because one of the things that you do on Rosh Hashanah is you blow your shofar. You know what a shofar is, Chris?

'''C:''' From context, I'm going to guess it is some sort of horn.

'''B:''' It is a horn. It's two kinds of horn. It's a musical horn, but it's also a literal animal horn. So it's a musical horn that is made from a hollowed out ram's horn usually, but I think there's other animals that it is kosher to use to make a shofar as well. They can be small or they can be very big. I've seen some that are like three, three and a half feet long and they get really loud. And the reason you blow the shofar and you blow it on Rosh Hashanah, and if I understand correctly, I think you also blow it the morning of every day of the month leading up to Rosh Hashanah. Then you blow it a lot on the new year. And symbolically it's to wake hearers from their slumbers and alert them to the coming judgment.

[Music: "Wake Me Up Inside" by Evanescence]

'''C:'''  Save me. Hey, if you don't have a shofar, is it okay to just play Evanescence's "Bring Me to Life"?

'''B:''' I think it is, but I have very good news, Chris. It happens, I do have a shofar.

'''C:''' Okay.

'''B:''' Yeah, I have one. It's from Israel. My dad brought it to me. My dad's been to Israel like five or six times and he brings me all manner of things. For example, I have a Florida State Seminoles T-shirt in Hebrew. I have a replica...

'''C:''' What? That is wild.

'''B:''' My dad likes Florida State. I have replica dead...

'''C:''' That did not explain the existence of this item, but do go on.

'''B:''' I'm pretty sure it's a store that does entirely like American sports teams in Hebrew, I think, for tourists. And so, yeah, my dad, he gave me that, and later he was like, "I guess I probably should have gotten you a Kentucky one, huh?" And I was like, "Yeah, probably. That would have been good." But anyway, and I've also got replica dead sea scrolls, and I got a book about Jewish pirates, all kind of things. He normally brings back hand lotion made by Israeli Christian communities for Sarah.

But anyway, he also brought me a shofar, and I have it. And so there's all sorts of different ways to play shofar. Shofar's kind of like the bugle in that there's no way to control the pitch apart from your embouchure, which is the shape of your mouth, basically. I am very bad at playing the shofar, but a friend of mine, a Jewish friend of mine, she specifically requested that I try a particular type of blast or tone on a shofar. It's called a tekiah gedolah, which means "big trumpet sound" in Hebrew. And it's one where people who are actually good at the shofar can do a big loud sound for like two minutes. I cannot do that, but I'm going to do my best. I'm going to blow this shofar for the new year. I'm going to ring out 5778, putting it on blast. 5779, feeling fine. All right. And we're still going to be feeling good a week from now when we're all still writing 5778 on our checks.

'''C:''' That joke worked a lot better when people wrote checks.

'''B:''' You never know, man. I got to write that rent check. I got to pay that rent. Got to write 5779. Feeling fine. Going to blow that shofar. Here we go.

 [Shofar sounds

'''B:'''] Okay. I feel like I crushed it just now.

'''C:''' Can I be honest with you?

'''B:''' I wish you would.

'''C:''' I won't if you don't want me to, but can I be honest with you?

'''B:''' Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.

'''C:''' That is a deeply unpleasant sound.

'''B:''' Uh-huh!

'''C:''' And I'm pretty sure that what I'm going to do in order to keep people listening to this podcast is I'm just going to replace it in editing with the saxophone bit from Carly Rae Jepsen's smash hit 2016 [sic] single, "Run Away With Me."

[Saxophone from opening of "Run Away With Me"]

[Shofar squeal]

'''B:''' Hey, that was way better. That was better. That was better. I'll leave that one in.

[Further Shofar squeals]

'''B:'''  Anyway, invite me to your Rosh Hashanah services. More things about Rosh Hashanah. Here's what you do. Please don't cut my actual shofar play.

Okay. So anyway, Rosh Hashanah is also supposed to be a time of reflection, like spiritual reflection. So the previous month you're supposed to like – you're supposed to spend time in self-examination and repentance, and then – which all builds up to Yom Kippur, where it's a day of atonement for what you've done wrong. And you're supposed to think about how you can start the year off right and what you can do better to improve your relationships and that kind of stuff. But in terms of more fun things than, you know, self-reflection, who wants to do that? Not me, clearly. But foods – you eat all sorts of symbolic foods, which that's true of many Jewish holidays. You're going to eat some metaphors for your holiday. And as you said, Chris, apples. Yeah, you eat apples dipped in honey because you're wishing for a sweet new year and similarly another sweet treat you might enjoy, fish heads are common.

'''C:''' That seems – if I have the choice, I feel like I'm going to go with apples.

'''B:''' You're going to choose apple over fish heads? So fish heads because, again, it's the head of the year, but also the idea is you want to be the head and not the tail. You might eat a ram's head instead of a fish head. Some people do that. Anyway, different communities eat all sorts of different foods. Here are just some representative samples. You might also eat black-eyed peas. That's what my family eats for New Year's. I don't know about you, Chris.

'''C:''' That's what my family eats for New Year's.

'''B:''' So black-eyed peas. Black-eyed peas solidarity, Jewish community, we love you. So I think – I feel like southern Jewish people are getting very many black-eyed peas - two different New Years.

'''C:''' I mean you can also just eat them on like Thursday.

'''B:''' You could just eat them regular times because they're pretty good. Other foods you might eat include leeks or spinach or gourds, and those are cool because those are all foods mentioned in the Bible, and so as a result you feel like you're eating an authentic thing. You also eat round challah bread, or if I want to really – I want to drive David Wolkin crazy, round challah bread. So you eat a round challah bread because it represents the cycle of the year. Or you might also eat gefilte fish, gross, and lekach, which is a honey cake that's usually also round to represent the cycle of the year.

And there's all sorts of different things you might say for the new year. We, of course, have talked about shanah tovah, which I think Americans usually say is shanah tovah, but I believe shanah tovah is closer to the authentic Hebrew pronunciation. And you might also expand that to "shanah tovah u'metuka," which means a good and sweet year. So not just a good year, but a good and sweet year. In Yiddish you might say "ah gut yor," which you can probably figure out what that means. It means a good year. Or you might have "ah gut gebentsht yohr", a good blessed year. In Sephardic they have a formal greeting for the holiday, in which I'm going to mess this up, and I apologize to all my Sephardim out there. But you might say "Tizku leshanim rabot", which means may you merit many years. And when someone says that to you, you reply "Ne'imot VeTovot," which means pleasant and good ones. So that's cool.

Another formal greeting you might say is "kateva v'tichatem tovah," which means a good inscription in sealing implied in the Book of Life, because the idea is that on Rosh Hashanah God pays extra close attention to your behavior, and he notes down how you act in the Book of Life. And so you hope that at the beginning of the new year God's writing good stuff about you in his big cool book that we learned about, "The Ascension of Isaiah," right? So you ask for a good inscription. And you might also similarly say "Leshana tovah tikatev v’tichatem," which means may you be inscribed and sealed for a good year. And I apologize to everyone who got real mad about the way I said that just now. But those are all different things that you might say for the new year.

And so shanah tovah to all our cool friends out there who are celebrating the new year. Shout-out to all our Jewish friends. I hope you have good high holy days, and I hope you eat very many apples. Just eat the honey crisp. You don't have to buy the separate honey. They already taste like honey. It's amazing. I love them.

'''C:''' You can also add honey to them. Look, honey is also good. Honey and apples is a dope snack.

'''B:''' Yeah. Honey and apples, yeah, very dope. So I hope you guys have a good one. Yeah, Rosh Hashanah. Blow that shofar.

[Shofar sounds]

'''C:''' All right. You want to talk about the Bible now?

'''B:''' Yeah, let's do that. So you might recall we were getting into Jacob and Esau, the trouble brothers. And they are twins. And Esau is red and hairy, and he likes that red stuff. And so he gets the nickname Edom. That means red. And Jacob is the clever brer rabbit of the brothers, and he outsmarts him at every turn. We're going to see more of that. But he gets Esau to sell him his birthright, his right to two-thirds of his father's property in exchange for a stew. And that's where we left off last time, Chapter 25. So we're going to pick up here. We're going to switch back to Isaac here for a second for a couple of different Isaac stories that come to us from our good friend J, the Yahwist source, including a completely unnecessary triplet of the sister-wife story.

'''C:''' Yeah, we get it again. And, okay, at least the first two times we got it, we got it once with Pharaoh and then once with Abimelech. This is Abimelech again, which makes him seem like the Boss Hogg of Genesis. He's always getting fooled.

'''B:''' Yeah, those Israelite boys always getting the best of Abimelech. So it may not be the same Abimelech. Yeah, obviously when we have doublets, normally we expect because they're from different sources. And while it's true that one of the previous ones with Abraham was a J and one of them was an E, this one is also J. And so even within J, there's a repeat. I guess. Anyway, it's still a doublet. It's the same story. There's three versions, sister-wife. There it is.

Then there's a fight over some wells because Isaac decides to go back to the promised land because God has reaffirmed his promise with him. So he goes back to his father's land back in Canaan. He goes to uncover his father's old wells, but there's fights over them until finally he's able to uncover a well that they don't fight over. And that one gets the name Open Spaces. The other ones get names like Quarrel, but eventually he -- Quarrel and Hostility. And then there's a well they name Open Spaces for the Lord has made room for us and will be fruitful in the land.

'''C:''' So then Isaac goes blind.

'''B:''' It's true.

'''C:''' And he's like, oh, I am about to die in roughly 20 years or so. So I better get this straightened out now.

'''B:''' Isaac was old and his eyes were so weak he could not see. It really makes you think like -- and he's also like, oh, I better deal with this blessing now. I got to take care of this now because I'm old and I'm going to die. And then we know that he survives at least 20 years after this. So maybe not a huge rush, but I guess, yeah, whatever. But --

'''C:''' Also, nobody goes and gets -- Raphael doesn't show anybody about fish guts in this to help Isaac out.

'''B:''' I know. Where were you at, Raphael? Come on, man.

'''C:''' This is where Jacob is like, yo, I got to get that blessing. I need that choice number one son blessing, that firstborn blessing. And Rebecca, who likes Jacob better, Jacob's his mom's favorite.

'''B:''' She likes that indoor boy. The idea is Jacob seems to be slightly more feminine because he's more into domestic things, right? And so he's a mother's boy, whereas Esau is the outside hunty-shooty boy. And so his dad likes him. And yet at the same time, Jacob is definitely the favorite son both by God and just by the narrative at large.

'''C:''' Yeah, we do not -- we're not going to see Esau for most of what we're going to read today. It's all Jacob. It's the Jacob show.

'''B:''' It is the Jacob show.

'''C:''' So Rebecca's like, look, I'm going to help you out. I need you to -- like Isaac goes, hey, Esau, you're a hunter. Go out and get a goat. Like go out and hunt me a goat and then bring it in and I'll have my favorite food. I love goat. It is my defining characteristic that I just love it so much. Rebecca's going to say it about three times in about five minutes. I love eating goat. It's the best. So go out and get me one, then come back and I will render unto you a blessing. And Rebecca's like, as soon as Esau leaves, Rebecca's like, Jacob, go get one of the goats we already have.

'''B:''' Two goats because you need one goat for food and one goat for cosplay.

'''C:''' Yes. Well, I mean, you can probably do it with one goat since you're not going to eat the fur.

'''B:''' Yeah, probably not. But she does specifically say two choice young goats.

'''C:''' Choice goats.

'''B:''' Very choice goats.

'''C:''' Got to get that choice goat. And she's like, yeah, and I will make it -- I will make -- this is what it says in the HCSB here. "I will make them into a delicious meal for your father, the kind he loves." My man loves goat.

'''B:''' He loves that Jamaican curry goat, I think, is his fave.

'''C:''' And so then Jacob's like, cool, I'll take him the goat, but he's going to know it's not Esau because Esau is hairy and I am but a smooth boy.

'''B:''' Yeah, I'm smooth like a shark.

'''C:''' Like a shark.

'''B:''' Don't send -- don't send any notes. That's a joke.

'''C:''' Sharks are hella smooth.

'''B:''' Sharks are hella smooth. We know.

'''C:''' So Rebecca's like, no, I got you, literal fam. I'm going to take this goat skin and you're going to put this goat skin, which is very fresh because we just killed these goats, it's going to be -- you're just going to put it on your hands and then when your dad reaches out to touch you, he'll feel that goat skin and be unable to tell that it is not a hairy human that he is touching.

'''B:''' What does this tell us about Esau? Yikes. Yikes-a-mundo. Because it's not just that, because Isaac is also like, hmm, you do smell like Esau.

'''C:''' Well, it's also -- we have no indication here that Jacob is, like, doing Esau's voice. So Isaac cannot tell his two sons apart by voice. And in fact, at one point it goes, well, he kind of sounds like Jacob, but he definitely feels hairy like a goat or my other son.

'''B:''' The voice is the voice of Jacob, but the hands are the hands of Esau. He did not recognize him because his hands were hairy like those of his brother.

'''C:''' Jacob goes in there, gives the goat, and Isaac's like, this goat is delicious. It's my favorite. I love it. Like I always do. This is not new information. I love goat. But hey, how did you get this goat so fast? And Jacob's like, uh, the Lord?

'''B:''' The Lord.

'''C:''' Which is a great -- if you find yourself in Genesis at any point, first of all, I apologize. It's very rough to get through. Second of all, if anyone asks you why anything is happening, just "the Lord." Just "the Lord was with me."

'''B:''' Yeah, man. He's doing it all. Sometimes he's the giant celestial Lego builder. Sometimes he's just the dude that's going to come hang out or fight me. That's later. But it's really strange how he comes back and forth. But he's behind me all the way. Hundo P. So he helped me with this very choice stew that you're enjoying right now.

'''C:''' So here's what trips me up. At this point, I thought Jacob was the villain of the story.

'''B:''' Yeah, no.

'''C:''' Because he's very conniving. He's lying to Isaac. And he's also literally lying about God, which seems like a big bad thing to do.

'''B:''' This is one of those kind of stories where later commentators have had to go in and go like, well, how is this not a sin, right? And so you get all sorts of different ideas where it's like, well, obviously, Rebecca and Jacob. Rebecca knows the prophecy about Jacob. She knows that Jacob is supposed to receive the birthright. She knows that he's supposed to be the true heir and take over and that he's God's favored. And so she's just acting according to what she already knows is God's wish. Jacob, of course, knows that he's actually owed this blessing because Esau traded it to him for some red stuff. And so-

'''C:''' For one bowl of lentil stew.

'''B:''' One bowl of red red stuff.

'''C:''' Which, by the way, Esau later gets mad about. And it's like, bro, you very much did that one to yourself. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

'''B:''' And so there are ways to look at it. But I mean, from the surface level reading, it definitely seems like, yeah, this is a big lie about God to your father that has major consequences. Yikes.

'''C:''' They are quite literally running a con on a blind man.

'''B:''' They sure are.

'''C:''' Which is a generally villainous behavior.

'''B:''' Yeah.

'''C:''' So Isaac's like, well, I guess this goat feeling boy is my good son Esau. So I will give you my blessing, which is a poem.

'''B:''' It is.... that starts with saying, I know you're Esau because you smell like the dirt.

'''C:''' The smell of my son is like the smell of a field that the Lord has blessed. Let me finish. It's a good field, though.

'''B:''' And so he finishes the blessing. And of course, it's very choice. As soon as he finishes it, Esau comes in with his wild game. He's like, Dad, I got that game you wanted. And it's like, uh, what? Everyone's looking around very freeze frame style because, yeah, now there's now there's an issue because Isaac can't do this twice, I guess.

'''C:''' I have a question.

'''B:''' Yeah.

'''C:''' I have a question.

'''B:''' OK.

'''C:''' When Esau heard his father's words, he cried out with a loud and bitter cry and said to his father, bless me to my father. But he replied, your brother came deceitfully and took your blessing. So he said, isn't he rightly named Jacob for he has cheated me twice now. He took my birthright and look, now he has taken my blessing. Then he asked, haven't you saved a blessing for me? Benito.

'''B:''' Yes, Chris.

'''C:''' Are blessings finite? Have I been like every time somebody sneezes, I'm there. Am I like depleting a supply that I'm going to need later?

'''B:''' Yeah, it seems like the blessing should overlap with the birthright. But here, clearly, Esau sees them as two separate things. I don't know, man. Yeah, it's limited. You can only bless one son, I guess. You can only give the rights of primogeniture to one son. And now he's done it and there's no take backs. No backsies on it.

But since he mentions this, isn't he rightly named Jacob? Let's talk about the name Jacob a little bit, because it's a wild name as far as history goes. So the Hebrew word is Yaakov, which, according to the etymology within the Bible, comes from the word Acheb, which means heel. Jacob is supposed to be the one who grasps the heel. Right, because he was literally holding on to Esau's heel when he came out of the womb. But it is also probably related to a word element that means to supplant or to overtake or to follow, to overreach, which is what we see Jacob do to Esau. I guess the idea is you grab someone by the heel, you pull them back and you move ahead of them. If you were in a race, for example.

'''C:''' I thought it was that he is identified with the heel because when he's feuding with the baby face.

'''B:''' Yeah.

'''C:''' He is the one who generally gets ahead through trickery and like wins the matches. Like he'll put his feet on the ropes or like hold the tights, roll up. He'll take a count out loss so that he won't lose the title.

'''B:''' But he's absolutely not. Jacob is the face and Esau is the heel.

'''C:''' He's a very Stone Cold Steve Austin type character.

'''B:''' Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Stone Cold Steve Austin clip: "You sit there and you thump your Bible."]

'''B:'''  So that's the origin of that name. When you go into the Septuagint, the Hebrew name Yaakov gets transliterated as Yaakob or Yaakobus, which then once you get into Latin with the Vulgate and such, you get Yaakobos is the name. And we already saw the name Yaakovos or Jacobos when we talked about Jacobus Devarajani earlier. And so, of course, naturally we get the word the name Jacob just comes from that right. Jacobus becomes Jacob.

However, there's another path that the name takes. At some point, Jacobus becomes Jacombus, which becomes Jacomus. From there into Middle French, that becomes the name James. And so that's why in the New Testament, anyone who's got the name Yacobus is James. So the both apostles, James, are both Yaakov. In English, we get a number of different names that come from this. We get James, Jacob, Jacobi, Kobi, Jake, Jack, Jamie, Jim, Jimmy, Jacques in French. And so anything from that Jacqueline as well. And then in Italian, we get Giacomo and Jacopo. In Spanish, we get Jaime, which is, of course, the equivalent of James. But then also from Jacobus, we get Iago, like the parrot from Aladdin or the villain from Othello, whichever is your point of reference.

'''C:''' Yeah, I'm the clown.

'''B:''' That was a general you. That was a universal you.

Anyway, so Iago. And then if you want to talk about St. James, then you get Santiago. And so Santiago, like the old man from the sea or else the capital of Chile. And then from Santiago, you get names like Tiago and then also Diego. And so Diego also means James. And the crazy thing is there this the Saint Diego that San Diego is named after, Diego of Alcala, because he was canonized in the 1500s when it was still necessary to everything official going to Latin. Technically, that still happens, but they needed a Latin version of everything. When they changed his name back into Latin, they did not call him Sanctus Jacobus. Instead, they took the name Diego and gave him the name Sanctus Didicus. They made the name Didicus from Diego instead of just call Diego means James. They just call him Jacobus, which is James.

But anyway, other names, the Russian Yakov, like our boy Yakov Smirnoff, you might recall from the 80s from the Soviet Union. But then also the names Seamus and Hamish even. So if you have any of those names, if your name is Jacob James, Kobe, Jack, Jake, Jamie, Jim, Jacqueline, Jacques, Jacquimo, Seamus. If your name is Hamish, dope, first of all. Second of all, you're all name bros. And that is very dope. It is a wild history for that name. And you guys are all named after the heel. You're all heels. Good job.

'''C:''' So Esau gets mad and he wants to murder his brother.

'''B:''' Yeah, that's true.

'''C:''' Rebecca goes to Jacob and goes, listen, your brother Esau is consoling himself by planning to kill you, which is a maladaptive coping strategy that I think we've all been there.

'''B:''' Yeah, it's not a great way to go, but, you know, he's already permanently red. I just imagine his face flushed with anger at all times.

'''C:''' Rebecca tells Jacob, you should probably leave town, which is another maladaptive strategy, but it works.

'''B:''' Yeah. And also we see that Esau marries Hittite women and neither Isaac nor Rebecca care for that. Although, of course, I think that's Rebecca's excuse to get Jacob out of town here.

'''C:''' Right.

'''B:''' Definitely. We see that Esau's got a couple of Hittite wives. And when he finds out that Isaac disapproves, he's like, well, guess I'll just marry some more Hittite wives.

'''C:''' Well, and Rebecca is like, if Jacob marries a Hittite, I'm going to kill myself.

'''B:''' Yeah.

'''C:''' Which is very extreme. There's a lot of extreme reactions to things in Genesis on all sides.

'''B:''' OK, I guess Canaanites more generally, they're not all specifically Hittites. Some of them are, but not but Canaanite more generally. But anyway, yeah.

So Jacob gets sent away to Rebecca's brother, Laban, who we met in a previous episode. That doesn't happen just yet, but he's on the way there. So Jacob is going to go get sent that way. Esau grumpily marries additional Canaanite women. He married women of Ishmael, so women from the tribe of Ishmael. So Mahalath, daughter of Ishmael, Abraham's son.

Anyway, then we get the bit that we opened with, the famous story of Jacob's Ladder, which, of course, HCSB translates slightly more accurately as a stairway. And of course, we all know Stairway to Heaven because Jacob has a dream and he sees angels going up and down. What does this story mean?

There are very many different interpretations of this story and why this is a thing and why these things are happening. Our good friends at the Genesis Rabbah, of course a famous Midrash on Genesis. It says that the different angels going up and down the stairway represent the different exiles that the Israelites are going to experience over history. So the Babylonian exile, the Persian exile, and then the Roman exile, basically, which is the exile of Edom. And so the different steps that they go up is supposed to represent the different number of years. And so, like, one angel goes up 70 steps and the other goes up so many. But the last angel is going up infinity steps, which is supposed to represent, like, the fact that their persecution by the Romans and the Edomites is eternal at that time or would feel that way at the time. Or other people feel that the moment, the place where he is at that moment is connected, at least metaphysically, with where the temple will be. And so this is actually the place where God interfaces with Earth. And that's why he actually sees a portal into heaven.

Lots of different ideas. Nobody's 100 percent sure. Nobody completely understands the Jacob's Ladder story. But, of course, of course, you know, there's all sorts of writings about it. There's a whole book called The Ladder of Jacob that who knows, maybe we'll look at if we do this show for infinity years. But yeah, lots of interpretations about the story of Jacob's Ladder or the Jacob's Stairway, the stairway to heaven.

'''C:''' Jacob goes off to the eastern country, heading to the east, where nothing but bad things happen.

'''B:''' So true.

'''C:''' But here's a good thing that happens. He meets Rachel, who is beautiful, so beautiful that I would say Jacob does a totally normal thing when you like meet someone that you kind of have a crush on for the first time, which is that he kisses her and weeps loudly.

'''B:''' Yeah.

'''C:''' Again, I've been there.

'''B:''' Yeah, I think we've all I think we've all done that. And, you know, Rachel, she's so beautiful. She had that haircut that influenced everybody for like a decade. Everyone was getting the Rachel. So it's understandable.

'''C:''' In fact, Rachel is so beautiful that Jacob goes to Laban and is like, hey, I would like to marry your daughter, Rachel. I'm in love with her. She is in love with me. And Laban goes, cool. You know, I have two daughters. And this is I read this and laughed so loud that my wife from another room asked me what I was laughing at.

'''B:''' Uh-huh.

'''C:''' Now, Laban had two daughters. The older was named Leah and the younger was named Rachel. Leah had ordinary eyes, but Rachel was shapely and beautiful. What is that comparison? What are ordinary eyes?

'''B:''' Yeah, actually, apparently the literal Hebrew word here means tender. She had tender eyes. So I don't know if HCSB was like, no, we got to justify this. So tender eyes. That sounds too positive. No, she's got those normal eyes, you know, whereas Rachel is shapely and beautiful. Presumably not just of her eyes. Like, you know, Rachel's got those hourglass shaped eyes that everyone loves.

'''C:''' I have never in my life looked at someone and had the thought, "that person has ordinary eyes."

'''B:''' Yeah.

'''C:''' Not once.

'''B:''' Right. You might say someone has Bette Davis eyes. You might say someone's got hungry eyes.

'''C:''' I might even say they have the eye of the tiger.

'''B:''' They have the eye of the tiger.

'''C:''' I'm not doing any of these drops.

'''B:''' No, don't.

'''C:''' Ordinary eyes. Like, well, you know, she's shapely and beautiful, but she's got those ordinary eyes. No, thank you.

'''B:''' Yeah.

'''C:''' Jacob says, look, I want to marry Rachel. Here's the deal. I will work for you for seven years. And then at the end of it, I get to marry Rachel. And Laban's like, works for me. Super sweet. Then we get another line that I think is extremely hilarious. This is after the seven years have passed. He's worked for Laban for seven years. Then Jacob said to Laban, give me my wife for my time is completed. I want to sleep with her.

'''B:''' Yeah.

'''C:''' Which is a bold move for your prospective father-in-law.

'''B:''' Yeah, that's how you talk to your in-laws. Right. It's go time.

'''C:''' I do respect it.

'''B:''' It's go time. Give me that shapely girl. I've been working for seven years. I'm hungry like the wolf, Laban. Let's get this going.

'''C:''' But then Laban pulls a trick on him and marries him to Leah and her ordinary eyes instead.

'''B:''' Yeah. So, yeah, when it's dark and he's in the tent, he sends in the wrong daughter. And, you know, once it's done, it's done. And there's no backsies. And so. So, yeah, he's like, obviously, obviously I gave you Leah, the older daughter. And it's not right for the younger daughter to get married before the older daughter. This is also the premise of Shakespeare's famous play, Taming of the Shrew. You might recall.

'''C:''' Or 10 things I hate about you.

'''B:''' Yes, exactly. Which is but it's weird because clearly Rachel's not the Kate in this situation. It doesn't matter. After Jacob gets punked in his dark tent because you can't see ordinary eyes when the lights are out. And so he's like, what was that about? He's like, well, you know, it had to be done. He goes, OK, well, I want to marry Rachel, too. So can I marry her if I promise to work another seven years? And he agrees. So he gets to marry Rachel. But then he's, you know, in indentured servitude to Laban for another 12 years, another seven years. Rather, sorry.

'''C:''' He does give him a week off, though. Take a week's vacation, then get another seven years of work out there.

'''B:''' If remember, if we remember from Tobit, that is the appropriate amount of time for a wedding because Tobit had that-- Tobias had that very clutch triple wedding holiday. But, yeah, so he gets the standard traditional week for his wedding and then he goes back to work for seven more years. Yeah.

'''C:''' Jacob, not really that into Leah, not really into it. He he's he loves Rachel.

'''B:''' Yeah.

'''C:''' Does not stop him from taking a frequent flyer trip to the bone zone.

'''B:''' Yeah. Yeah.

'''C:''' It is a full page of Bible just of boning down.

'''B:''' It's it's very true. Yeah. God tries to help Leah find favor with Jacob by making her more fertile than Rachel. Basically, Rachel's unable to conceive. The Lord opens Leah's womb, as he says. And yeah, she's got she's going to start filling out babies. And that's going to happen for a while. We get Reuben get Reuben first, whose name means look, a son.

'''C:''' It's a good name.

'''B:''' Yeah. But also the name Reuben sounds like he has seen my affliction. So that's why she says the Lord has seen my affliction. And surely my husband will love me now because I've I've had a son. She conceived again, gave birth to another son. She says here, the Lord has heard me, heard that Jacob doesn't love me. And so she names him Simeon, which sounds like the word that means has heard. Then conceives again and gives birth to another son, this time named Levi, which sounds like the word that means attached to, because she's saying she hopes that her husband will be attached to her. Then conceives again, gives birth to another son whom she names Judah, which sounds like the word for praise. And so this time I will praise the Lord. And then it says Leah stopped having children. Spoilers: n o, she didn't. This is a temporary pause.

And so when Rachel sees that her sister Leah is having all these children and she has so far had none, she decides she's going to pull a Sarah and let Jacob go to her slave Bilhah. She says, you know, go sleep with her. She'll bear children for me. You know, it's what your grandmother did. It's good enough for her. It's good enough for me. And so Bilhah gives birth to Dan because here she says, God has vindicated me. And so the child's name is Dan, because Dan sounds like the word has vindicated or has judged. If you remember back to episode two, we talked about Daniel, the name Daniel, Dan-El. Don-El. Means L is my judge. And so you can see the connection there.

'''C:''' I do quite like that. We get all of these extremely biblical names, Simeon, Judah, Levi, and then Dan.

'''B:''' Dan.

'''C:''' Dan shows up.

'''B:''' Hey, what's up? It's Dan. Yeah. Then Bilhah conceives again, has a second son who gets the name Naftali. We saw that Tobit, if I recall correctly, was of the tribe of Naftali. She says that because in my wrestlings with God, I have wrestled with my sister and won. And so Naftali sounds like the word that means my wrestling. So maybe put that one in your pocket, Chris, if you ever need to name a child or a pet or something.

'''C:''' Spoiler alert, not the last instance of wrestling we're going to get.

'''B:''' No, it sure isn't. This is a wrestling heavy section. Then since Leah noticed that she herself has for a time stopped having children, she decides to do the same thing and brings in her slave Zilpah and gives her to Jacob as a wife. And Zilpah gives birth to a son. And she says, what good fortune. And so she named him Gad because Gad sounds like good fortune. The word that means good fortune. And then Zilpah bears another son and she calls him Asher because I'm happy that the women call me happy because Asher sounds- Asher means happy. We're now up to how many? One, two, three, four, eight kids for Jacob so far. And then we get this very something, very something story about Mandrakes.

'''C:''' Here's what I wrote in my margins. Question mark, exclamation point, question mark, exclamation point, question mark, exclamation point.

'''B:''' So, yeah, so a Mandrake is a real plant.

'''C:''' A Mandrake or Mandragora.

'''B:''' Correct. It's a real plant. And if you guys have seen Harry Potter, you remember they go to the herbology class, they had to pull out the Mandrakes. And the thing is, they look like little crying babies. And if you hear them, then you turn a stone or something. I can't remember.

'''C:''' You die.

'''B:''' Oh, is it you die? OK.

'''C:''' Yes.

'''B:''' But that's based on real lore because a real Mandrake root looks like a little dude. And so the plants have these tuberous roots. They look like little dudes. And so the idea was that the Mandrake would enhance your sexual prowess and your fertility. And so Leah, obviously desperate for some of that good, good Mandrake, they're just going to eat. It's like chew on some Mandrake and sit in separate bathtubs or something. But so she sends her son out to get some. And then Rachel says, give me some Mandrakes. And she goes, well, OK. And she says, well, you can sleep with them tonight. It's a whole like bargaining thing. Like...

'''C:''' It's a weird sex bargain.

'''B:''' Yeah, it's it's very similar to...

'''C:''' On page 27 of Bible!

'''B:''' You ever watch Big Love, Chris?

'''C:''' No, I did not.

'''B:''' Yeah. With with Billy Paxton, R.I.P. It's where he plays he's a polygamist Mormon, like like he's from like a deep Mormon, like fundamentalist cult that he escapes from. And then he lives what is seemingly a normal, like mainstream Mormon life, except that he secretly has three wives. And so and they all live in houses next to each other. But you see in that relationship the similar kind of thing where it's like, well, I know it's my night, but I'll trade you for pizza or whatever, you know. And so, yeah, you definitely see some like sex trading on that show. And this this felt like that where she's like, well, I'll trade you my sex night for some mandrakes. And anyway, it worked out because God listened to Leah, gave him a fifth son. His name is Issachar, which sounds like the word reward. And so he's rewarded me for giving my slave to my husband.

'''C:''' I have a question about that, actually.

'''B:''' Yeah, that's a way to look at it. Yeah.

'''C:''' We've got Isaac.

'''B:''' Yeah.

'''C:''' And now we have Issachar. Yeah. When does... When does Issachar's heart show up? I think I might have to leave in my three attempts at making the stupidest joke I've made on the show.

'''B:''' Yeah. Issacharizard. Yeah.

'''C:''' I'm very proud of that one.

'''B:''' You should be. It's good. Anyway, anyway, a sixth son from Leah is born. His name is Zebulon, which sounds like the word honored because God has honored her with six sons. Then a daughter is born Finally, Dinah is her name. And yeah, you know, she's the only daughter with all these boys. It's bad for her later. Then finally, God remembered Rachel. Hey, remember Rachel? And so he listened to her, opened her womb. She conceived and bore a son and said, God has taken away my shame. So she named him Joseph because may the Lord add another son to me. Joseph means he adds. And obviously, obviously, even though he's got all these other sons from three other wives, Jacob likes Joseph the best from his favorite wife. Yeah. So that's that's a little foreshadowing for our next episode.

'''C:''' Hey, everybody, have you enjoyed hearing all about these people having sex in Bible? Would you like to hear about some sheep getting it on? Let's go into the end of chapter 30.

'''B:''' Yeah, man. I get some are good regular segment on animal husbandry and sympathetic magic.  So, yeah, Jacob works 14 years for Laban.

'''C:''' And it turns out Laban sucks, by the way.

'''B:''' Yeah.

'''C:''' It turns out Laban is bad.

'''B:''' Yeah.

'''C:''' If you hadn't gotten that from the weird 14 years of servitude and using his daughters to get basically one farmhand. Into a long term.

'''B:''' Yeah. Yeah. Basically, he says, hey, man, I'll work for you for another seven years. If at the end of that time I can take all of the sheep and goats that are speckled or spotted or dark colored. So let me go through your sheep today. Remove every sheep that speckled spotted, every dark colored sheep spotted speckled among the female goats. That'll be my wages. And so Laban's like, yeah, OK. And so what he does is he then has all of the dark spotted speckled sheep and goats removed and taken far away so that they will not mate with the rest of his and give birth to more dark spotted speckled goats and sheep. Right? Jacob figures out a way around that, that on the surface is incredibly confusing. Did this make sense to you, Chris? What he does?

'''C:''' Kinda.

'''B:''' Yeah. So he takes he takes branches, tree branches from poplar, almond, plain wood. He peels the bark. And so what he does is he's making stripy, speckled, spotted branches. And then he puts that in the water source for these animals. And the idea is- and this is sympathetic magic that he's doing here.

'''C:''' Yeah. It's a weird, magical Punnett Square. It doesn't make any sense. This is not how it works.

'''B:''' No, it definitely is not. If you're if you're looking for like- and again, this would be very difficult, in my opinion, to defend if you're trying to take this as a literal historical thing, but you're also trying to say God doesn't do magic. Right. Because this is very much a magical thing. This basically...

'''C:''' Yeah, this is  some getting together on Thanksgiving to save the invisibles stuff going on right now.

'''B:''' He's basically making a voodoo doll is what's happening. It's the same idea. Right. Sympathetic magic is where you make a thing that's like another thing. If A is like B, what you do to A will be reflected in B. That's that's sympathetic magic. Right. And so just like I make a voodoo doll of you and then I harm the voodoo doll, you are harmed in a similar way. And so this idea here is I make these branches stripy and then they drink water that has stripy branches in it. They're going to give birth to stripy sheep and goats. It's, I mean, it's magic. There's there's no way around it. I mean, it does later say that God made it happen. So I guess that's the loophole. God's magic doesn't count as like magic. God's magic is miracles.

'''C:''' Laban gets mad about this and Jacob gets in an argument with him because Laban basically goes, hey, you did weird magic. So it's my sheep. So you can get more sheep. And Jacob goes, yeah, well, you changed my wages six times. So heck you, buddy.

'''B:''' Yeah. Yeah.

'''C:''' You made me marry the wrong daughter.

'''B:''' Yeah.

'''C:''' She has ordinary eyes.

'''B:''' She has ordinary eyes and she keeps having babies. What are you doing?

'''C:''' To be fair, that is not a that is not a thing she's doing by herself.

'''B:''' Right. True. But also and also that would not have been seen as a negative back then. Of course, you know, he's he's building his own his own little army here. And, yeah, so, you know, it's like, all right, fine, except not fine because it's what they they go and then Laban chases after them. But God tells him, don't. God says, comes to him in a dream and says, watch yourself. Don't say anything to Jacob, either good or bad. He didn't listen to that dream.

The other thing that happened is when they flee in the night. So Jacob got up, put his children, wives on the camels. He took all the livestock and possessions he had acquired. He drove his herds to go to the land of his father, Isaac in Canaan. Right. Of course, this family keeps going back to Canaan because Canaan is the is the promised land. It's the land that God not only has promised, but keeps promising to them. And so, like, literally the angel of God, who, again, remember, is like the physical manifestation of God on Earth, appears to him and says, hey, man, remember that land just to live on? It belongs to your family and your line and the nation that's going to be born from you. Go back to it.

And so they sneak out in the night. Rachel's like, oh, quick, I got to grab something real quick. And what she grabs are what is translated here and in many modern translations as the household idols, which would have been presumably something similar to what the Romans would have called like the Lares and the Penates. It would have been some kind of household gods that represent the spirits of your ancestors and that kind of thing. Maybe the actual word that's used here is teraphim, teraphim. And nobody really knows what it means. It does have a plural ending, but it may refer to a singular object. Rabbinical literature translates it to mean disgraceful things. But modern etymologists don't like that.

But, yeah, usually in modern translations, it's idols or household gods. We see them here with Rachel. We see the word again later in First Samuel, where David's wife uses one to help David escape. So here we're about to see the implication that these teraphim are small. In this First Samuel version, it's apparently big enough for her to prop up in the bed and can confuse King Saul and make her think that David is in the bed. Right? So, you know, like the way you would stuff clothes under your covers to make it look like you're sleeping there if you're trying to sneak out or something.

The possibility of what it could actually be, according to Targum Pseudo-Jonathan, he says that the teraphim were actually made from the heads of slaughtered first born male adult humans, shaved, salted, spiced with a golden plate placed under the tongue and magic words engraved upon the plate. It was believed that the teraphim mounted on the wall would talk to people. So it's not just a household idol. It's a shrunken head, possibly. And if you think about that, then it's a little bit easier to think maybe maybe David's wife propped up a shrunken head and was like, no, look, here he is under the covers. Look at this totally normal head on this pillow. But anyway, yeah, Laban's going to catch up with Jacob and Rachel.

'''C:''' And you ready for some Ocean's 11 stuff to happen?

'''B:''' Yeah, man.

'''C:''' Ready for the heist of the century?

'''B:''' Yeah, absolutely.

'''C:''' OK, so Jacob does not know that Rachel has stolen what are described in the HCSB here as idols. So Laban shows up and he's like, you stole my idols. I want them back. And Jacob's like, I don't have your idols? Go ahead and search the camp. And Rachel's like, oh, boy. So what she does is she goes and grabs the idols out of her tent and she puts them in the saddlebags of the camel. So Laban is searching through all the places and not finding him. And he finally goes up to the camel and Rachel sitting on the camel. He goes, hey, I need to search the saddlebags. And she goes, oh, sorry, I can't get up. I am having my period right now.

'''B:''' Yeah.

'''C:''' And again, not a goof. Here is the actual verse. This is the book of Genesis, chapter 31, verse 35. She said to her father, sir, don't be angry that I cannot stand up in your presence. I am having my period. So Laban searched but could not find the household idols.

'''B:''' This is very smart on Rachel's part, because at that time, a woman on her period would have been seen as ritually unclean. He absolutely cannot touch her while that's happening. And so it's not like he can pick her up off the off the saddlebags.

'''C:''' So then Jacob becomes incensed and says, hey, you've come here. You've accused me of stealing idols, which is actually true, but he didn't know about it. That's made explicit in the text. So that Jacob's not in on the heist.

'''B:''' Right. Yeah.

'''C:''' And he says to Laban, we're going to put this before everybody here and we're going to see who they think is right. And then in chapter 29, verse 41, "for 20 years, I have worked in your household, 14 years for your two daughters and six years for your flocks. And you have changed my wages 10 times."

[Dusty Rhodes: "And hard times are when a man has worked at a job 30 years, 30 years. They give him a watch, kick him in the butt and say, hey, a computer took your place, daddy. That's hard times. That's hard times."]

'''C:''' That's hard times.

'''B:''' A computer took your goats.

'''C:''' So, yeah, then Laban's like, well, OK, I guess you can go because it turns out I do, in fact, suck real bad.

'''B:''' Yeah, they make a covenant there. They build a mound of stones and they seal their covenant that way. We see that happen a couple of times. You build a you build some kind of sacred mound and to seal seal a covenant. Yeah. And then since Jacob now is finally returning back to his homeland, there's only one little problem with that because, you know, who's there?

'''C:''' It's Esau. And as he hears from one of his servants, Esau is coming at him with 400 men.

'''B:''' Yeah.

'''C:''' Esau, apparently at this point in the story, did not get over it in the intervening 20 years.

'''B:''' Yeah. Oh, quick. My one quick note, my one quick note from this section. We get like one of the dopest nicknames for God that never gets used again after this chapter. He calls him God of Abraham, the fear of Isaac.

'''C:''' Yes, that is very good.

'''B:''' That shows up in verse 42. And then again, they swear by the fear of Isaac. That happens in 53. And then that's that phrase is never used again, according to this commentary. I'm sure somebody is going to pop up with. Um, actually, it appears in Obadiah chapter three or whatever. But yeah, as far as I'm aware, he's never called the fear of Isaac again. But that's a very dope nickname. Yeah. Esau, 400 men.

'''C:''' Yeah. So he's coming. And so Jacob's like, oh, brother. And he decides to, like, just get some real good cows and camels and everything. And just be like, hey, I'm going to send you guys first. And you just tell him when you see him. These are his now.

'''B:''' These are for you. Yeah.

'''C:''' So he gives him 200 female goats, 20 male goats, 200 ewes , 20 rams, 30 milk camels with their young. Never heard the phrase milk camel. Don't really like it. Seems very unsavory.

'''B:''' It's camels and their humps are full of milk. And you just put a little spigot in there.

'''C:''' Oh, well, 40 cows, 10 bulls, 20 female donkeys and 10 male donkeys. And then gives sends all those separately and says, hey, when you run into Esau, tell him, hey, your servant, Jacob, is right behind us. And then before we get to Esau, though, we have about six verses covering a nine hour wrestling match with God that comes out of nowhere.

'''B:''' Yeah, it really feels fragmentary there. Obviously, I feel like I don't need to tell you the source on this section. Would you give this one a guess, Chris?

'''C:''' Yeah, I think it's this one.

[Dusty Rhodes: "You don't know what hard times are, daddy."]

'''C:'''  Is it the Dusty Rhodes source?

'''B:''' Yeah, it's the Dusty Rhodes source. D. No, D is Deuteronomy. That didn't work.

'''C:''' TADDR.

'''B:''' Yeah.

'''C:''' The American Dream Dusty Rhodes.

'''B:''' The American Dream Dusty Rhodes. So remember, we got P, J and E in this one. You want to take a stab at it?

'''C:''' Yeah. Which one is the which one is the one that God comes down and eats all the bread? The bread, the bread guy. This is the bread guy.

'''B:''' Yeah, it is. That's J. That's J. This is also the one where God comes down to the garden is like, I have no idea where Adam and Eve are, nor that they're naked, nor that they have betrayed me. Yeah, this is the very anthropomorphic God of J that we see.

'''C:''' And in fact, and in fact, God loses the wrestling match.

'''B:''' He loses. You... remember, remember, remember Jesus? Uh huh. You remember how Jesus does everything well? Remember that? Remember how Jesus could score more goals than Wayne Gretzky?

'''C:''' Uh huh. Yeah, I have seen Jason David Frank's forearm. So I do know that Jesus didn't tap.

'''B:''' Jesus did not tap. And yet... and yet... and yet... and yet... God taps. What is that?

'''C:''' Yeah, the father taps.

'''B:''' And it's not just that. Like he cheats. He cheats to get out of this match. The match goes on so long that he has to use magic to disable his opponent.

'''C:''' I'm just gonna... which, by the way, classic wrestling. I was hoping God would like spit the mist in his eyes or like turn the lights out. And then Paul Bearer would show up with the urn and some lightning would come out. I'm just going to read this entire section because it's really short. I literally wrote in my notes. Why is there not more of this? Because it's buck wild.

'''B:''' Yeah, go for it.

'''C:''' The header in the HCSB is "Jacob wrestles with God," which they put in there like it's a normal thing.

'''B:''' Oh, mine says wrestles with an angel. But we'll get to that in a second. Go ahead. Go ahead.

'''C:''' "Jacob was left alone and a man wrestled with him until daybreak. When the man saw that He could not defeat him," and he is capitalized there. "He struck Jacob's hip socket as they wrestled and dislocated his hip. Then He said to Jacob, 'let me go for it is daybreak.' But Jacob said, 'I will not let you go unless you bless me.'" Total wrestling content. One paragraph.

'''B:''' Yeah. Yeah.

'''C:''' Three verses versus 24 to 26. I want deets. I need details.

'''B:''' Yeah, sure. What's the play by play? The tale of the tape. The important thing we get Jacob's new name, Israel, which sounds like he struggled with God. It could mean a lot of other things. It could mean God struggles. The "s-r" in there is the same element as in the name Sarah, which means princess. So it has something to do with like ruling and contending as well.

But that becomes his name. And... but the the name, you know, he struggles with God or he wrestles with God is one that really resonates, I think. And I think it's one that modern Jewish people continue to identify with, because, you know, again, from my outsider's perspective on Judaism, it seems to me, and I say this as praise. This is me admiring Judaism from this is that being a member of the nation of Israel in the larger sense, not the literal modern state of Israel. But being a member of the nation of Israel means that you are part of an ongoing five thousand year debate on the nature and existence of God and which God himself is a participant. And so a very appropriate name for the forthcoming nation that is going to be born out of out of Jacob. And, of course, you know, I don't need.... spoilers. Right?

He's he's has 12 sons and those 12 sons are the 12 tribes of Israel. We've already encountered several of them since we're not going chronologically. We know, of course, Judah becomes the predominant tribe in the south. And so it gets that name. And we've seen Tobit was from Naftali and and so on. The different tribes are all descended from the 12 sons of Jacob.

We get this little etiology here at the end. "This is why to this day Israelites..." And that's true, not only to the day of the writing of Genesis, but also to this day, the 27th of Elul in the year, 5778, to this very day, you don't eat the thigh muscle. That's it, the hip socket. Part of eating kosher is a process that's called porging. I think it's porging. I don't think it's "porjing." I think it's porging, but I couldn't find the pronunciation... and that has to do with stripping away non-kosher veins and fat and such. And one of those things is cutting away bits at the thigh muscle. So that's actually true. That is a practice continued to this day.

'''C:''' Then we get the final, or finally we get to the reappearance of Esau and we get the, we get predator. We get the opening of predator.

'''B:''' Yeah.

'''C:''' You think it's going to be these two dudes coming to blows, but instead, handshake.

'''B:''' Just huge ripped muscles. We know, we know, we know Jacob's got those classic guns because he just destroyed God in a grapple.

'''C:''' Yeah. He's got to be, if I'm sure there is like Renaissance art of Jacob, right?

'''B:''' Of course.

'''C:''' Is he super ripped?

'''B:''' Probably not. Generally no.

'''C:''' Cause he should just be like, like he's the Rock, right? He just out wrestled God. Like he's, he's not even like wrestling Rock. He's like Furious Seven Rock. He's Fate of the Furious Rock.

'''B:''' He should, he should at least be Carl Weathers level

'''C:''' At the very least be Carl Weathers.

'''B:''' Yeah.

'''C:''' And he says like, Hey, you're my bro. I realized now that it was my fault for selling you my birthright for a bowl of lentils. That was stupid. It was also over 20 years ago. Forgive and forget. Let's go be bros. And they are bros from then on.

'''B:''' Well, yeah, except, except Jacob leaves. He was like, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool. I'm glad you accepted these hundreds of livestock animals in exchange for my life. Now I'm going to leave because he says, look, man, I can't, I'd love to come with you and come stay, but I, my children are small. I got nursing sheep. I can't go ahead with you. And so he goes off a different way. He goes, he came from Paddan-aram. He arrived safely at Shechem in the land of Canaan and camped in front of the city. He purchased a section of the field where he, where he had pitched his tent. So again, tent, we're still, still nomadic at this point. So, still sojourners, but he's purchasing land in Canaan in the same way that Abraham had helping to legitimize their claim to that area being their land. Then we get chapter 34, which is, yeah...

'''C:''' This is the part that we put a content warning at the top of the show for. This is the story of Dinah. So if you do want to avoid that, then feel free to skip ahead a bit, or we'll see you next time for the end of Genesis. If you're still with us, though, we now have the story of Dinah, which is basically Deathwish meets Deathwish 3.

'''B:''' When you see it's like, oh, this is the story of Dinah. You're like, sweet, some very good train action slash banjo soundtrack. Alas, no, not in the kitchen. No one's in the kitchen. It's bad for Dinah. A Hivite, a Hivite, Shechem, son of Hamor the Hivite, prince of the region, fell in love with Dinah. And he does the bad thing. We don't need to say it.

'''C:''' Yeah.

'''B:''' And, but after that, he was infatuated with her. He spoke tenderly to her. This is very gross. And then he says, get me this girl as a wife, he told his father, Hamor. And so Jacob hears that Shechem had defiled his daughter, but his sons were with the livestock in the field. He remained silent. Jacob and Hamor have a discussion. Hamor is the chief of this region and they make a deal, basically.

'''C:''' Yeah, and this is probably the most brutal thing we have seen in Bible so far up to and including raining fire from the sky.

'''B:''' I think so because Jacob and then his sons also, they make this deal. They say, yeah, Dinah can marry Shechem. That's fine. But here's the thing. We don't let our people marry anybody who haven't seen that flint knife on their business. So, not only your son, but also all of your people need to be circumcised. If all your males are circumcised as we are, then we'll give you our daughters. You can give us your daughters. We'll intermarry. And this is a peace treaty, basically, between their people. And Hamor's like, this sounds good. Circumcision sounds like no big D. Let's handle it. Let's get her done. They agree to it. They all get circumcised. But what Jacob doesn't know is that his sons, namely Simeon and Levi, that's two and three, second and third son. They're like, yeah, this is not happening.

'''C:''' Yeah, they're a couple of Liam Neesons.

'''B:''' Yeah, this is straight... I texted you, Chris. I was like, this chapter is like a Liam Neeson flick.

'''C:''' Yeah. So this is chapter 34, verse 25. "On the third day, when they were still in pain." So this is three days after everyone is circumcised. And again, you can't just get ice even...

'''B:''' Yeah!

'''C:''' ...at this time.

'''B:''' They definitely do not have ice in the Levant. That is not a thing that you can get.

'''C:''' These dudes are just sitting there on day three. And I like that it's day three, because that means they're giving them some time with it.

'''B:''' Yeah.

'''C:''' You're going to spend a couple of days with this. "When they were still in pain, two of Jacob's sons, Simeon and Levi, Dinah's brothers, took their swords, went into the unsuspecting city and killed every male. They killed Hamor and his son Shechem with their swords, took Dinah from Shechem's house and went away. Jacob's other sons came to the slaughter and plundered the city because their sister had been defiled. They took their sheep, cattle, donkeys and whatever was in the city and in the field. They captured all their possessions, children and wives, and plundered everything in the houses." They killed everybody.

'''B:''' Everyone.

'''C:''' Yeah, it is a real Frank Castle situation happening here.

'''B:''' Yeah, it sure is. Man on fire. Just all of these movies that have the same premise.

'''C:''' Then a part that I actually, again, like just to make it more of that movie, Jacob's like, hey, do you know what you did? "You have made me odious to the inhabitants of the land, the Canaanites, the Perizzites. We are few in number, and if they unite and attack me, we will be destroyed." And the response from Simeon and Levi is, oh, so so we should have let that happen.

'''B:''' Yeah.

'''C:''' Which is animal raw.

'''B:''' And that's the end. That's the last.

'''C:''' That's the end of that story.

'''B:''' End of that story. End of that chapter. Yeah. And I mean, we see that now when we're like, "yes Simeon," but they're supposed to- they're in the wrong here. In this story right?

'''C:''' Are they though?

'''B:''' They murdered... I kno/w. Right Like, from our perspective, it's kind of like, yeah, because the first time I read this, I was I thought Jacob was with them and I was picturing Jacob as Liam Neeson in my mind. And then I had to read back and go, oh, no, they were doing this without Jacob's approval.

'''C:''' Well, imagine if a man who had pinned God to the ground after a stone cold stunner showed up to assist in this murder of a town.

'''B:''' Yeah. Just body slams the whole city.

'''C:''' So that's also kind of the end of what we need to talk about. Isaac dies at the age of one hundred and eighty years old.

'''B:''' Yeah. We don't see Rebecca's death, but we see the death of Deborah, who had nursed and raised Rebecca. She died and was buried under an oak south of Bethel. So Jacob named it the Oak of Weeping. But literally that's plural. So that's the Oak of Weepings. And so some commentators, since it's a plural weeping, think that means Rebecca must have died as well. And so we never actually see the death of Rebecca, but a lot of people see that in that element right there.

We get a repeat of God's blessing of Jacob and his renaming of him as Israel. We get the name God Almighty, which, again, that's the translation, that's your traditional translation of the phrase El Shaddai, which we don't actually know the meaning of. We know El means God, but Shaddai, it might mean God of the mountains.

Or in this very amusing article that King of the Gnostics Jonathan Stewart sent to me, well, he sent me the abstract because the rest is behind a paywall, but the abstract was enough. The title was enough, to be honest. It posits that the name El Shaddai might mean the God with boobs. So that could be what's going on there. I'm the God with boobs, be fruitful and multiply. We don't know.

But anyway, yeah, Jacob names the place where God had spoken with him Bethel, which means the house of God. Then we get Rachel's death and she dies in childbirth, giving birth to the 12th son, the 12th tribe of Israel, Benjamin. She names him Ben-Oni, which means son of my sorrow. But Jacob renames him Benjamin, which means son of my right hand, which means my favorite son. He's going to pop up again later, but yeah, there we see the death of Rachel.

And so we get the 12 sons, the 12 tribes, Reuben, Simeon, Levi, Judah, Issachar, Zebulun. These are not in birth order. They're in order by the wives. Then Joseph and Benjamin. And then by Bilhah, he has Dan and Naphtali. Sorry, by Zilpah, he has Gad and Asher. And those are the 12 sons of Jacob. Those are the those are going to be the 12 tribes of Israel. Isaac dies, 180, takes his...

And that's where we see Esau and Jacob reunited again. They're bros, no conflicts. Then we get the list of Esau's family, which is a lot of names. So it's more family records of Esau. Here we get the ninth, tenth, eleventh or so of these Toledot, the generations, the family records. The point is we're establishing the different Edomites because remember, Edom is Esau's nickname. That means red. Edom is going to come to be a neighbor of Israel. That's going to be a thorn in their side for a long time. You'll recall they were part of the Syro-Ephraimite War that we talked about in the Isaiah episode. And so Edom is going to be a problem for them for a long time. And that's supposed to be rooted in the conflict between Jacob, i.e. Israel and Esau, i.e. Edom. That's 36.

And so next time we'll pick up with Joseph and his fancy jacket. And it's going to be another content warning, just a warning for a warning. Pharaoh, Egypt, slavery, all sorts of stuff for next time. We will definitely, real for real, finish up Genesis next time.

'''C:''' So that is it for this section of Genesis. Benito, before we get out of here, can you tell everyone where they can find us online?

'''B:''' Well, if anyone wants to find us, if you're looking for supplementary materials, such as links to other readings, links to articles, maps, images from our more out there stories, fan art, including our patron saint, Hot Dan of French's, you can find all that on our Tumblr at apocrypals.tumblr.com. We update there frequently, although I haven't been answering questions very well in the last little bit. I'll hit some of those, our inbox is a little bit full. But you can find us there.

If you like the show, you want to support the show, you can help us out by going to ko-fi.com/apocrypals. That's ko-fi.com/apocrypals. And you can make a donation in increments of $3, the equivalent of buying us a coffee. You can buy us as many coffees as you want. Anything that's in a multiple of three. It's just a tip. If you like the show, it's a non-recurring payment, unless you want to pay every week, like Buckley Guderian. I'm going to call you out, man. Thank you very much for making a donation every week after every episode. I super appreciate it. Anything else, as often as you like, you can leave a tip, whatever you think we're worth. You don't have to tell us specifically, but you can also leave us a little note there.

If you don't have the money to help us out, another way you can help the show, leave us a rating and review on Apple Podcasts. It's really easy. You can just leave us a rating, just click a number of stars you think we're worth.

'''C:''' It's five.

'''B:''' Five is nice, but also a written review...

'''C:''' It should be seven.

'''B:''' Seven it is...

'''C:''' But it can't.

'''B:''' It is the most number of stars we can have. But if you also want to leave us a review, it can be short. It doesn't have to be long, but we do get some really beautiful, thoughtful reviews that we both really appreciate. So if you want to help out the show with money, find us at Ko-Fi. If you want to help us out, you don't have the cash at the moment, help us out by leaving a review on iTunes, or talking about us on Twitter with #apocrypals. Talk about us on Tumblr, on Facebook, on your blog. If you have your own podcast and you recommend us, I just saw that we were recommended on a podcast called History of Sexy. I haven't had a chance to listen to that show yet, but yeah, go for that. Check that out, see if you can listen. It seems like a cool show that talks about a lot of things that I think people would appreciate.

'''C:''' Do not just tweet at celebrities about us, but do if you find yourself in an audience with His Holiness, Big Frank. Francis.

'''B:''' Yeah, if that does happen, Margaret Atwood also we would accept. Yeah, if someone's looking, if they're looking for podcast recommendations, we do appreciate people who drop Apocrypals as a possible...

'''C:''' But don't bug anybody unless you are face to face with @Pontifex and just tell them we need that, just need that clutch retweet.

'''B:''' Yeah, see if we can get that.

'''C:''' If you could issue an ex cathedra retweet, I don't think that's ever been done before and I would love it if our new episode was the first papal ex cathedra retweet. That's what we need in this horrifying nightmare hellscape.

'''B:''' It is. It would fix Twitter right up, in my opinion.

'''C:''' Couldn't hurt it.

'''B:''' Couldn't hurt, couldn't hurt.

'''C:''' At this point.

'''B:''' What about you, Chris? Where can people find you on internet?

'''C:''' Everybody can go to the-isb.com and get links to everything that I do, including comic books that I write online and at your local comic book store. The pre-order period, I believe, has passed, but you can still tell your local comic book store that you do want a copy of the Army of Darkness Halloween Special, which has a story written by me and my writing partner, Chad Bowers, and a story written by Benito as well.

'''B:''' Yep.

'''C:''' And of course, Infinity War's Sleepwalker that Chad and I are writing is coming up pretty soon. There's plenty more that we've done, so check that out and I will mention new things as they come up here on the show, but you can find all of that at the-isb.com. That is it for the third quarter of Genesis. We will be back next time with the final, the final stretch. We're going to get Joseph. We're going to get the death of Jacob. Eventually, we're going to be done with this very long and very strange foundational text. Until then, for Benito Cereno, I have been Chris Sims. Benito, peace be with you.

[Shofar sounds from Benito]

'''C:'''  That was a lot.

[MUSIC: "Stairway to Heaven" by Led Zeppelin]